to think its not that benefits are too HIGH, its that the minimum / average wage is too LOW.

[MistyMountainHop]

inspired by a load of recent threads about benefits (which may or may not be bullshit a bit of a stretching of the truth) and lots of mnetters (and a lot of the general public) up in arms about people choosing to be on benefits rather than work and that benefits are too high

well i think that the average wage is too LOW and vastly disproportionate to the cost of living. when people can "earn" more for NOT going to work than they can working then something is badly wrong. and i have been on benefits (single parent) abou 5 years ago and its SHIT. me and dc were POOR. i certainly didnt have this fictitious daily-mail benefits lifestyle with lots of spare cash, luxuries etc. hell no. i had enough to cover my rent and bills with a bit of change to feed me and dc. but if i had have worked at that time i would have probably only managed to get a minimum wage job which would have been pretty much the same as what i was receiving anyway. so shoot me, i decided i didn't want to work because it just wasnt worth it. (disclaimer for any dm readers: i do work now and have done for a while and now married and dh works too so no benefits apart from a little bit of tcs)

i know people on min or very low wage get "topped up" with tax credits and all that shit etc but IMO there is something really wrong with the world when people can work full time and still need financial help from the government to pay their rent and bills.

so surely in the final analysis its not that benefits pay too much, its that employment pays too little?

i am not very good at getting my point across so i hope this makes sense! but this was just something me and my friends were having a drunken conversation about at the weekend. and thought i would put it to the aibu jury :o

Single parents can claim back up to 30% in childcare costs. But 30% of a lot of money is itself a lot of money to pay out of low wages.

When mine were small I was paying £35 a day each for nursery care. £70 a day, £350 a week, and my share today would over £115 a week. That just wouldn't be possible, with current fuel costs etc.

maypole I guess because to be able to survive even a bit one would need to double the MIN WAGE... that just wouldn't happen.

I think some people dont have kids quickly and wait so they only have one child going through childcare at a time and then make it manageable as well as work when they still end up the same off and sometimes worse after taking out costs to get there, clothes and 30% childcare but there are a large number of people that do that, as they believe that its not up to anyone else to support them.

If there is no jobs, or you are trying your hardest then fair enough but otherwise I dont think you should ever choose it as how is it fair on all the other people who slog their guts out on NMW because they want to do the right thing?

But we have to face facts even If this were in acted their are a hardcore few who will not work not matter and will only do so on their terms

My oh grandma told us of stories of her had in irland when their was not benefits and you had to relay on the church for relief

He would send nana and her brother down tyne their rags get them to swear on holy Mary their da was looking for work and they needed the relief money

Only for him to take the lot and spend the whole lot on the horses then in the pub andwould spend the whole month half cut in the put

Even though my on nana and their mother. Faced starvation and had to wait out side the cake shop for stale bread Friday nite and run behind the cole truck he wouldn't work

He said he wouldn't work till iralnd was free so he never worked died with my oh nana living in a two room shack in the hills of irland

Before anyone says I am not talking about sen/disabled/carers tbh one of the reasons why I do all that for the minimum wage is I would feel guilty about taking money that could be given to sen/disabled/carers when there is nothing wrong with me and I am capable of working.

2 points -

Single parents will not be affected by the 24 hrs per week rule under the new universal credit.

Lone parents can get 70% of childcare costs funded by the childcare element of tax credits. Single/lone parents are the group that come off best financially, whether unemployed, working part time or working full time.

I didn't ask for my husband to walk out on me and out two very young children and leave me to bring them up on my own, molly.

For me also the child care argument thing never washes with me when people are in couples

For years my step mum work nights while my dad worked day she would finsh work at 8 take the kids to school then sleep till 4 pick the kids up then my dad would come they would have dinner together step mum would put kids to bed at 7 then in to work by 8

I think couples who are not in work should get less as their are ways round child care were as if your single it can be tricky

I don't think there should be a special shop with choices limited to the basics, but I do think some benefits should be paid in vouchers.

I have a husband but I still waited on the time as I couldnt afford 2 in one go and both of us worked at the minimum wage. I think most workers have to consider that tbh

LineRunner Molly didn't mention your oh what's that got to do with you working

Plenty on net mums on here have 3,4,5 children and still work

Your making it personall I don't think Molly mentioned that you asked to be left

Being left to bring up two children on my own also meant that if either of them were ill, I had to time off work and lose money. Their father never had to do this.

The implication was that others are sensible and 'wait' to have more than one child.

And yes, these things are rather personal, don't you think?

NET Mums maypole

LineRunner welcome to the world

Same for mums all over

And you would verve be surprised to a lesser extent mums who are married most mums will tell you if the child's I'll THEY will be the one expected top leave work or take time off for illness or parents evenings ECt

I mean mum net lol

kitchenroll what benefits (do you think) should be paid in vouchers?

Ok maypole

Sorry, I can't make any sense of that.

I earn £13 an hour and work part time. So I earn the same as someone who works full time on minimum wage. Live in London, no kids and it is a bloody struggle month by month.

If I didn't live with my partner, I'd leave London.

The problem isn't that the minimum wage is too low, but that things are too expensive. The cheapest 1 bedroom round here is £1000 a month. Transport is almost £30 a week. It is a joke.

I just see it as I had one child as we both have to work the minimum wage for the same as you would get if we didnt work. If factoring in all other costs it is less eg petrol, uniform etc. I have had to wait 4 years for baby no2 as we couldnt afford the extra to chip in for childcare. I could of just quit my job and gone on benefits but I want to help myself and my child (soon to be children see that).

TBH yeah it gets annoying when me and DD are up and out of our flat at 7am every morning so I can work, when I meet mums saying they dont work because it isnt 'worth' it. Its hard running around like a crazy maniac all the time but getting no more than if I didnt bother, but I hope one day the kids know why I did it, even though I am in the minority here (except for the Polish who do work hard and are often single mums with no other family/support in this country and good on them!)

LineRunner not really not one supposes that if you already had children you should disappear them

But if not working one should not plan children and seek reliable contraception until such time as one can afford the child

Also one should not use children as a reason not work fair play some women who have disabled children may not be able to take employment but other than that women all over the world from somila to Austria have to work with children when single

You won't have much money and it's hard and back braking

And. Theirs not much glory any more in supporting ones own family

But deep down most know it's best

Do you think the childcare will be safe under universal credits ? .

Just because you get them now under tax credits does not mean you will get the same level of childcare costs funded in future.

It's a big expense , the gov are bound to cut it eventually .

maypole have you considered that SAHM's are saving the taxpayer money by staying home to care for their pre school children? And being a SAHM... Now fuck me, that is a job for heroines. I am in awe of them and frankly, I think if you are saving the taxpayer money by being a SAHM to pre school kids; you should get some kind of 'wage'. It's not like you're lazing about all day. And I am a WOHM. I am the first to admit that when I went back to work, it felt easy in comparison.

Sorry for the tangent there OP!

YANBU. Something needs to be done, but I don't know what.

YANBU

I've worked for several companies (retail) who wont give out many (if any) fulltime contracts to employees. They'll give them 20 hours a week and top it up with the odd bit of overtime. Because of stupid policies like this, those employees then have to claim WTC and HB just to survive.

Before I was made redundant last year, my company cut everyones' hours right back. Along with the letter explaining this and our new contracts to sign they gave us a booklet on what benefits we would be entitled too and how to claim them.