To think that these nursery policy's on grant places are a load of bollocks

[pud1]

my dd2 starts her grant place in sept when dd1 goes to school. I have just called the 2 nurseries closest to my 2nd and 3rd school choices to be told that there grant places work as follows.
Children have to attend for 2 full days per week from 8-6 for 51 days per year. As the grants only allow for 15 hours per week term time I will have to pay about £30 each week for the short fall. If I take her in 9-4 for 2 days and not at all at holidays I will still have to pay for the short fall. I understand that they do not get there going rate for the grant places and they will in effect have a space during holidays but this is not a free nursery place

If you take her 9-4 on both days, they can't exactly take another child 8-9 and 4-6, yet they still have to staff the nursery and keep it open. What exactly are they supposed to do???

You have the option of a community nursery which runs from around 9- 12 or 1 if there are any in your area.

I don't know what to suggest but yes the system is bizarre!

We were told you can't claim the full whack if your child is in for less than three full days, it doesn't cover holiday periods and the free hours's "hourly rate" doesn't bear much relation to the hourly rate you may be charged. So it equates to about 3.50 per "free hour" but the nursery might charge 5. So not free.

So you can be shortchanged in three ways over it and it never quite adds up to the "15 free hours" you think it will!

I appreciate it is a benefit and better than a kick up the arse but it isn't 15 free hours the way I would have understood it.

It's supposed to be 15hours taken over 3days, so not sure how the 8-4 for 2days works?

That is not how they are meant to be doing it. Can you call your local authority for advice?

I thought it was odd. Dd1 gets 9-3 two days and 9-12 once a week. This is also a private nursery but unfortunately in opposite direction from school and I don't have a car. All I pay is £3 per week dinner money

I've heard all sorts of stories similar to this - the nurseries seem to need to make up the money somehow and construct all sorts of rules. Is there nowhere else? What about those that are playgroup sort of set-ups or one attached to a school, rather than a private day nursery?

Fortunately, our nursery just knock 15 hours off your bill, job done.

I could go for the one attached to a school but it's only mornings and as I don't have a car I will be going to drop off at 9 then pick up at 11.45 then back again at 3. I suppose it is doable but our bus service is an hourly circular route so I will be traveling for ages.

I don't think it really works in private nurseries, you'd be better finding a school/children's centre nursery class, or a pre-school or playgroup.

Second looking at nursery attached to schools. We can take 6 x 2.5 hour sessions free for our 3 yo. We do pay additional money for lunch and supervision over lunch time but that is optional. Plus it is closed over all school holidays so no holiday charges either.

I could take him 9 till 11.30am and 1.30pm till 3pm totally free :)

I think you need a pre-school or playgroup. Is there nothing nearer you?

They are all in the opposite direction of the school. Hopefully dd1 will get her first choice and it will not be a problem ass the nursery near there does a morning and afternoon session and you just pay for the lunch supervision. We live in a rural area so not too many options.

Are you a sahm?
You do know you don't have to send them at all don't you?
I wouldn't be spending my day on the bus like that, I'd rather be with my child

Any chance of getting a car? Your travel problems are only going to multiply as they get older so might be worth the investment.

Yes I am at home. I was hoping to do a little work for friend while dd at nursery. She has just started her own business. Pay will be really low but it will geve me work experience for when they are both in school and I can get a regular job. Don't want what I earn to be swollowd up by nursery fees.

I'm on the committee at a community nursery, and the income coming in from government 'free' places only JUST covers running costs for us. Any additional spending needs to come from fundraising. Because we are a Community nursery, parents expect and are very supportive of fundraising. Private nurseries shouldn't have to do fundraising, they are (usually) for profit organisations. I wouldn't want to do any fundraising for a 'for profit' nursery. So it's quite understandable why they put these rules in place for the free hours. Otherwise it's just not worth accepting them at all.

they arent allowed to do that. If it comes under the 15 hours they cant even ask for extra to cover lunch/snacks it has to be entirely free.

They are NOT supposed to be charging any top-ups
the private nursery we use does not. In fact it's better than most community nurseries as they will allow you to choose your hours, although it must be spread over 2 days, and for 38 (or whatever it is) weeks of the year. when I was on mat leave and just having the funded hours, dd1 attended 9-3 2 days each week, and Friday mornings.
they have a relatively small number of children in the preschool room who only attend for the funded hours, and cover the losses as part of what they charge for fee paying nursery places.

We were told you can't claim the full whack if your child is in for less than three full days, it doesn't cover holiday periods and the free hours's "hourly rate" doesn't bear much relation to the hourly rate you may be charged. So it equates to about 3.50 per "free hour" but the nursery might charge 5. So not free.

I don't understand this ^.
Ds goes 10-4 twice a week, and 1-4 once a week - and that's all free. No other costs whatsoever (I do give him a packed lunch though).

Sorry jock I don't understand.

I asked if she could do 9-3 for 2 days aNd 9-12 for one and they said she could but I will still needn't pay the extra as though she would be there for 8-6

Just spoken to the council and they have confirmed that they can't try to make you pay for additional care you dont want. They are going to contact the nurseries and speak to them about there policy's

They can't make you pay for the extra care you don't want, but they also are under no obligation to give you a place!

If you only use 9-3, what are they going to do with the hours 8-9 and 3-6? You'll be blocking a full day.

Pud that's interesting...

I am currently looking at a preschool for DS1 that accepts the nursery grant.

However they charge you for 5 half days of preschool care whether you use this or not. And I think you end up paying a top up as their fee is higher than what the nursery grant pays iyswim...

Is this not allowed then from what you understand from your council?

Their policies need reviewing.

I work in a private nursery and funded children can do 6 hours 2 days and a 3 hour session per week. Or 3 hour sessions everyday. They should not be charging extra for times your child isn't there. You would only need to pay for lunches you child would have there.

Glad you contacted the council, you either got given incorrect information from someone who knows nothing or they're a money grabbing nursery. Not on at all.

Nurseries are businesses, and they have been put in a really difficult position by the governments insistence that they have to offer the free hours. They simply cannot afford to run unless they do something like you have described. They have to make money somehow, or quite simply, they would go bankrupt. Inkow of two nurseries that this has happened to.

The government needs to start giving nurseries what it actually costs per child per session, instead of the pittance that nowhere near covers the true cost. and they need ti do something so that nurseries do not miss out financially by allowing children to only attend for their free hours.