To think Scotland becoming independent wouldn't have any impact on the rest of the UK?

[lesley33]

Some in Scotland want it to become independent. I don't really understand why the coalition government is fighting against this happening. Will it really matter in the rest of the UK if scotland does become independent?

That's what I'm after PostBellum.

www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/scotlandoffice/files/Scotland%20and%20Oil%20-%20Background%20paper.pdf

This artcle focuses on oil revenues, but states even if all oil revenues are taken into account and scotalnd received all Uk oil revenues (if I have read that correctly) Scotalnd is rarely with a surplus. However, although the more strident nationalists insist the north sea oil somehow belongs to scotland, it does not. The oil is brought into aberdeen because of its convienient location, but the vast majority of the oil is in international waters and so does not belong to scotland although many oil companies are based there due to its convienient location. Therefore its revenue does not belong to scotland. Often, when people claim scotland has good finances they are mistakenly assuming the oil is scottish and the revenue from it is scotlands contribution.
If Scotland does get independance it will be interesting to see if they try to raise revenue by taking the oil comapnies up there, and therefore interesting to see what their response would be - a lot of people think the might move south of the border, but who knows.

For all those saying look what happened to Iceland, I think you will find that Iceland has sorted its economic problems out already and its economy is growing again, it was able to make its own economic descisions to get out of its hole.

I would like to also mention the Czech Republic/Slovakia split. Slovakia was able to substantially improve its growth rate and begin to catch up with its larger economically dominant neighbour due to being able to bring in economic policies that encouraged investment.

Do you know why the UK can drill the north sea oil, if its in international waters? I thought it would all go to Scotland in the event of independence, less presumably some contribution/repayment of 90% or whatever of any investment made by Westminster (not 100% because the Treasury includes Scottish revenues too, and the Scots shouldn't be charged twice).

Thank you for that kelly2000. I get in a pickle when I try and get my small brain around the whole financial implications. Now I just need to try and understand the UK situation. Clearly bits of England will be bringing in a huge amount (thinking of the City really), but there is also the enormous great burden of debt to be considered too.
If Scotland became independent, would they be handed over a proportion of the debt too?
Don't get the oil thing at all. If the oil is being drilled in international waters, what revenue do we get from it at the moment?

Nobody in Scotland wants to sit on their bums living off oil revenues, we want to develop our industry to provide more jobs.

London centric economic policy sometimes prevents this; eg. in DH's field of animation Britain is the only country he has come across that doesn't provide cheap loans and subsidies for animation development. The jobs are going to countries that do, Canada, India, Malaysia etc. DH is now employed working with these outsourced workers instead of employing 15 graduates himself.

A descision was made in London that the industry was too small to bother with, despite a good level of return on the subsidies and the potential for quality creative graduate jobs.

A small industry by London standards would be a subtantial employer by Scottish standards and enable animation graduates to stay in Scotland.

DH's industry is struggling not because of dodgy transport links or poorly educated employees or the weather or business rates. It could all be sorted by a small tax break for animation production that would be clawed back in revenue (animation generally has a better return rate than film). Westminster are not interested and Holryrood isn't able to...yet.

the rights were divided up between various countries. Basicly it will be a real headache when the time comes to divide up the Uk rights, but Scotalnd will not get a huge amount of it (if the international laws/treaties are followed). But i was reading another article and it said even if scotland could count the oil revenues it would still have a yearly debt of five billon to the Uk economy (that is before it takes into accoutn its share of UK debt). How is that possible - that is £1000 per person before the UKs debts are taken into account.

I have an English mother and a Scottish Dad and live in Scotland. I find the SNP's attitude to the English highly offensive. Alex Salmond does not have the mandate of the Scottish people - some Scots voted for him yes, mostly to irritate the Labour Party. However not all Scots did. He does not speak for me and many of my friends and family who voted elsewhere. My local MP is SNP but only just beat the Tory candidate.I am glad Cameron has stood up to his antics.

Salmond has ushered in all sorts of people-pleasing policies which an independent Scotland has no hope of continuing financing. Everyone falls back on the oil argument - forgetting it is a finite resource. Also he seems to forget that we would have to change to the Euro (conveniently). He sought legal advice re the Scots Parliamenthaving a referendum- but refuses to publish it. Seems strange if it is so legal and above board??

Salmond is an egocentrical buffoon - I have heard of him declining to attend meetings but suddenly changing his mind because he saw a camera crew - he virtually chased them down. My parents had the 'pleasure 'of meeting him at a local country hotel. They were having a private dinner with friends and having their picture taken. The idiot interrupted them and insisted that he be in their picture - never mind their protestations!

I consider myself British first- Scottish second. I would rather MPs and MSPs were spending time sorting the economy, NHS etc...
Pheww...rant over..

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/28/scotland-tax-powers-bill-holyrood

basic article in the guardian last year which talks about the barnett formula.

why do they have to join the Euro - can that just happen automatically at the moment?

kelly2000, the Welsh parliament had tabled a question re independence and currency and were told only the UK govt has the right to the sterling pound. Any new EU member MUST take the Euro. Perhaps not the best route these days!

I can't see Germany agreeing to any new member after the current economic disasters.

But it is not up to the UK to tell Euro countries to accept new members. The Uk is not even in the eurozone, so surely its a question of finding their own currency if they do nto wnat to or cannot join the euro.

Bring back the groat!

I think the Scots should have as much right to the pound as England - it's their currency as much as ours. No one should be forced to have the Euro.

Besides, England is so closely linked to Scotland, that in the event of Scotland having the Euro, I can see England getting it via the back door, because it will just be easier for companies established in both places to use the one currency.

I think it would be rather dumb to change currency - surely that would just cause unnecessary problems?

Thanks for the links Kelly. I will admit that I still don't really understand the oil revenues issue. And put me down as another one who doesn't understand why it has to be either pound or Euro. Is there any particular reason why an independent Scotland couldn't possibly have its own currency?

Also, I wonder whether Scotland would exactly constitute a new member of the EU, in the same way that eg Moldova or Ukraine would. Yes its a new member state, but the Scots have been part of the EU for donkeys years. Might be a good get out clause re compulsory single currency membership.

salmond has said that they would continue to use sterling until such times as we thought it suitable to adopt the euro, again on newsnight recently. wonder who actually came up with sterling back in the day... just as likely to have been scots as english.

ah, have checked. we had the pound before union as well.

Scotland: give and take - probably been linked to already ...

I'm glad wee Eck's had to name the day so we can get past the hot air and have a chance at reasoned and mature debate .

Wee Eck named the day in his election manifesto.

Yeah, in the most wishywashy way - at least 'October 2014' focusses minds.

that's a good piece, lowlevel. the first point i made on this thread was that in terms of talk of monies in and out, the UK is already borrowing £141billion pa anyway and more to survive.

Have read ALL posts, very interesting so far, but have not yet commented. Can't resist adding this... Bank of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries in response to possible currency issues. Keep it up folks, I'm loving, and learning from, this thread, thank you.