To think Scotland becoming independent wouldn't have any impact on the rest of the UK?

[lesley33]

Some in Scotland want it to become independent. I don't really understand why the coalition government is fighting against this happening. Will it really matter in the rest of the UK if scotland does become independent?

The point I'm making is that he was deeply involved in certain decisions that were for England and there was no way to hold him to account on these decisions as he had a scottish constituency and so he shouldn't have been involved in making them as there was no way for England to directly hold him to account.

YRC, isn't this the basic West Lothian point? If somebody has been voted in by the Scottish then they shouldn't be making decisions about things that will apply only in England and Wales just because they are a British MP, because they haven't been democratically elected by the English and the Welsh.

I do understand that, partially, lipole and I agree the West Lothian question is a difficult one. But if the English are so bothered, why don't they campaign for independence instead of just moaning about it?

MPs and SMPs are different though I think?

Of course they're different Empire, but Gordon Brown was an MP not an SMP.

I would also assume that people currently resident in Scotland and people with a birth certificate would all get Scottish passports. A Scottish person living in England would probably get both a Scottish and and English passport and have dual nationality.

Firstly, because the West Lothian question could be resolved by changing the law so that only English and Welsh MPs get to vote on legislation that only applies to England and Wales. That wouldn't require independence; it is a separate issue.

Secondly, I suspect a lot of English people aren't bothered about campaigning for independence even if they want it, because they are hoping the other parts of the UK might just leave of their own accord.

Yellowraincoat, because some of us don't consider that independence is the best way to deal with the West Lothian question.

I think the English are pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't as regards the timezone issue mentioned upthread. The fact is that the current timezone arrangements cause greater inconvenience to the majority of the population of the UK, and assist quite a small proportion of us- those living in the far north. If anyone suggested changing them to suit the English (and indeed the Welsh, who are quite far south on this island too, which seems to be forgotten) and imposing this on Scotland, rightly there'd be ructions. The alternative then is allowing both countries to have a timezone that suits them best. I fail to see what's wrong with this solution.

I would also assume that people currently resident in Scotland and people with a birth certificate would all get Scottish passports. A Scottish person living in England would probably get both a Scottish and and English passport and have dual nationality.

So being independent isn't being independent in anything other than name?
I would accept this if English people could go to Scottish universities for free and get free prescriptions too.

If i'm not mistaken after the referendum Scottish people won't have the same rights in the UK or what's left of it as they do now.

That's the point isn't it?

Going back to financial viability- they couldn't really cost cut if independant. So many costs would increase because they enjoy, for want of a better word, economies of scale by sharing things with the rest of the uk. What about defence(those norweigans can get angry and are great friends of the English :)) postal service, god loads of things!

I would also assume that people currently resident in Scotland and people with a birth certificate would all get Scottish passports. A Scottish person living in England would probably get both a Scottish and and English passport and have dual nationality.

So being independent isn't being independent in anything other than name?
I would accept this if English people could go to Scottish universities for free and get free prescriptions too.

If i'm not mistaken after the referendum Scottish people won't have the same rights in the UK or what's left of it as they do now.

That's the point isn't it?

If English people could go to Scottish universities for free, foglike, the universities would be shock full of English people because they would flood up there to take advantage of the free places. Then there wouldn't be enough places for Scottish people.

They could cut costs. There's always the option to spend less on eg health, education, defence. Whether this would be acceptable or not to the population is another issue, but it could be done.

Actually, regarding defence, I think an independent Scotland would probably spend a lot less, and basically ponce off England's defence spending. That is, nobody's likely to attack Scotland unless they want to also draw the wrath of England, since it would be like attacking England too. I don't necessarily mean anything pejorative by the use of the term 'ponce' by the way, I think it's very smart. I wish the UK would do the same re nuclear weapons actually. France have them, and nobody would nuke us unless they wanted to provoke France, who have nukes too. Get the protection without the payment.

They would be independent. Presumably, the people currently resident in Scotland and those living elsewhere with a Scottish place of birth would get Scottish passports.

The people currently living in England (if we became independent of the rest of the Uk as well as Scotland) would get English passports, as would those living elsewhere with an English place of birth.

People who reside in England at the time independence happens but were born in Scotland would get dual nationality. People who reside in Scotland at the time independence happens but were born in England would get dual nationality. Most people would have one nationality and be either English or Scottish.

It is a civic nationalism, not a racial one. They're not trying to decide who is ethnically Scottish and get rid of people on the grounds that while living there, they were actually born in Portsmouth or Bangladesh. They're trying to gain independence for the current residents of Scotland and people who have a link to Scotland through birth.

They wouldn't have the nhs. They'd have to start all over with health. Imagine the investment required. They'd have to buy our hospitals off us

PMSL @ not having an NHS! Our system is separate to yours. It's already a devolved issue.

You know when you say "they" and "us" serenity? That's why the Scottish get wound up by the English. It's not "they" and "us". I'd imagine the majority of people on this thread are Scottish, so why are you addressing an English audience.

They would be seperate if independant- that's kind of the point.

Surely it doesn't matter if it's devolved? The nhs is the uk national
health service. You are not in the uk, you don't get it (like ROI)

Why would we have to start all over with the NHS?
Do our hospitals belong to England?
Did I miss something?
Is our NHS infrastructure the property fo England?
I'm fairly sure we've all been paying NI contributions for the same length of time as the rest of the UK?

I'm not talking about being separate, I'm saying you're talking like you're addressing the English. You are not.

NHS Scotland is already totally separate to the NHS.

Serenity, you know how we get free prescriptions, and you don't? It's because our health systems are different. Just like our education system, and our legal system. And our churches.

So would we get back all the money we've paid into NI then if the remainder of the "UK" takes back all our NHS properties?

sorry - X-post.

And I was being ironic.

Serenity, how do you know that "your" hospitals aren't actually "ours?"

To all the misguided fools from Wales and Scotland who think they're not British: are you truly unaware that long before the Anglo Saxons turned up, the island was called Britain amongst its inhabitants. And they called themselves Britons, as did the Romans. It was only the Saxons who started calling the Welsh wala meaning stranhers. You are British. Deal with it.

And are folk of England not aware that people in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland pay tax as well? You don't pay for their prescriptions FFS! They could equally moan that their taxes are funding the one in three families on benefits in Liverpool.