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Original poster

To think IQ testing is a load of old bollocks?

26 replies

muffinflop · 10/01/2012 11:27

(Not really a thread about a thread but something elsewhere made me think of this)

How do 'professionals' administering IQ tests know the person doing the test is in the top 1% of the country? Surely the only way they'd know that was if they'd tested everyone in the country?

OP posts:
lesley33 · 10/01/2012 11:29

It is a load of bollocks - but not for the reason you give. IQ tests test if you are good at iq tests. And the more you do, the higher your score will be.

TheParanoidAndroid · 10/01/2012 11:29

IQ tests are a load of bollocks, but thats not the reason why. They don't have to test everyone in the country, no.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 10/01/2012 11:35

IQ tests on their own are a load of old bollocks.

But pyschologists rarely rely on them on their own for anything. But they can be useful as a small part of a whole report on a person which will take other things into account.

I had to have ds tested by and ed psych, and that's what he told me anyway.

Concordia · 10/01/2012 11:35

They certainly don't live up to the claims they make really. The statistics behind them are relatively sound so i don't agree with your criticism but it's actually what they measure and whether this is indicative of anything related to 'intelligence' that is in doubt imo, as they are so culturally laden. White middle class children are likely to score better on such tests, especially those with a high language components. In context a profile of scores can provide some useful information about a person's abilities and difficulties, but individual scores have a high confidence interval - range of possible scores - which needs to be taken into account but rarely is...

lesley - People who do repeated iq tests are obviously insane!

TheRealMrsHannigan · 10/01/2012 11:36

What Lesley said.

IneedAbetterNicknameIn2012 · 10/01/2012 11:37

My step-Dad got one of them 'test your own iq' tests a few Christmas' ago. According to that test, me, my Mum, step-Dad, step-brother, and step-sister are ALL in the top 1% of the population! Hmm

hackmum · 10/01/2012 11:38

muffinflop - they've run these tests with enough people over many years to know what the IQ distribution is among the population. (Caveat: average IQ is apparently rising, so I suppose they would have to recalibrate every few years.)

Are they bollocks? I used to think so, and then I did a Mensa home test and discovered I have a Mensa-level IQ, so now I think they're a completely objective measure of intellectual ability:-)

hackmum · 10/01/2012 11:40

But seriously...Malcolm Gladwell has written a brilliant article about IQ tests and what's wrong with them: www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/12/17/071217crbo_books_gladwell

lesley33 · 10/01/2012 11:41

Agree concordia! But my parents made me and siblings practice them so if we were given them at school, we would do well - we never were!

Punkatheart · 10/01/2012 11:44

I once went to sit a Mensa test and couldn't find my way to the testing place. An indication that someone with a high IQ can be as daft as a brush. I did go on to join Mensa but I can't drive and I have no practical skills. Intelligence is so complex. I am daft, but can compare and contrast the novels of Thomas Hardy.

chemiseblair · 10/01/2012 11:46

I feel the fact Binet based a lot of the research on snails is probably a pretty severe indictment.

(there's all kinds of science that can cross-species but the neurology of a gastropod is absolutely nothing like that of any mammal, let alone a human child taking a test)

You can learn them, which means that the more tests a child takes the higher their IQ. I think there probably is some correlation between a high mark and academic performance but only in the sense that there is a correlation between any test mark and ability to take tests.

Theas18 · 10/01/2012 11:51

Punkaheart I'd totally agree with you there!

IQ are just a measure of being able to do IQ tests. I know a lot of highly intelligent teens through my older 2 and they are generally low on practical skills and abilities, DD1 being the prime example- her brain copes fantastically with academic concepts, study and expressing herself, but in so many ways she as an archetypal "dumb blonde" who is as likely to ask questions like "if I'm cooking the potatoes I have to put water in as well.. right?" Smile

DD2 however, if she stops stropping so much has the brains and practical/organisational skills as well. DS says she'll be either an "evil genius" or run a big company and employ her siblings at a pittance!

Theas18 · 10/01/2012 11:52

Punkaheart I'd totally agree with you there!

IQ are just a measure of being able to do IQ tests. I know a lot of highly intelligent teens through my older 2 and they are generally low on practical skills and abilities, DD1 being the prime example- her brain copes fantastically with academic concepts, study and expressing herself, but in so many ways she as an archetypal "dumb blonde" who is as likely to ask questions like "if I'm cooking the potatoes I have to put water in as well.. right?" Smile

DD2 however, if she stops stropping so much has the brains and practical/organisational skills as well. DS says she'll be either an "evil genius" or run a big company and employ her siblings at a pittance!

Kladdkaka · 10/01/2012 11:55

I think they can be useful but you have to use a bit of common sense too. For example, I'm a fairly intelligent lass but I have the attention span of gnat. If the test has more than 10 questions I'll most likely just randomly guess the answers. My husband is an intellectual superpower (aspie, nerdy, sciencist bod), but his brain cogs are so huge they take time to turn. He is utterly rubbish at IQ tests with any sort of timing in the results

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 10/01/2012 11:58

Well, I don't have a specific issue with IQ testing in and of itself exactly.

I am from the US ansd what I strongly object to is the way it is used to stream children into 'gifted' groups academically. Even today this Victorian practice is going full steam ahead in numerous places.

Setting aside the divisive nature of that sort testing at a VERY young age (I'm taking 3, 4, 5), the obvious point that IQ is not the only determinate of success in life, the word 'gifted' is horrible for the receipient too...as if saying: lyour skills and abilities are nothing to do with YOUR efforts, someone gave them to you, external parties are actually more in control of how talented you are then you are yourself.

I was in the sodding gifted programme and I always wondered if one day the 'gifts' would be taken away somehow....

I would not KNOWINGLY allow either of my children to take an IQ test in school today unless there was absolutely no way around it (and after much agonising.)

accd to my mother, some studies were later done on this and gifted children had high high school drop out rates too.

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 10/01/2012 11:59

Sorry for the rant but I actually see these tests as quite pernicious.

TroublesomeEx · 10/01/2012 12:13

I did an IQ test when I was 17. My dad wanted me to join MENSA Hmm.

My IQ came out at 168 which makes me a genius. Even more Hmm.

It's nonsense!

Theas18 not sure I'd agree that it measures ability to do IQ tests only because that's quite a simplistic way of looking at it. It measures quite a specific type of intelligence that's all. If you practice them, you can probably get better. I did the test on one occasion.

But I have absolutely no common sense. My intra-personal intelligence is quite high in that I know myself. But my inter-personal intelligence is very poor - I really struggle in social relationships/situations.

I also have crap common sense.

But I am very quick. I find conversations frustrating because most people seem to be intent on over stating the bleeding obvious or I become aware that I'm conversing on a different level or it is all just. so. slow. I'm dissatisfied with myself and my underachievement. I have anxiety issues and depression. Apparently it's quite common...

LadyHarriet steer clear of the 11+ then! The verbal and non-verbal reasoning elements are IQ tests.

Oh and if anyone thinks this is a boast. It's not. No one other than my parents and my husband know I did the test. I'm not a member of mensa. I don't tell anyone!

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 10/01/2012 12:24

Yep. I know they are.

Original poster
muffinflop · 10/01/2012 12:39

Punkatheart That's what happened to my DH. He couldn't find the test centre so gave up and came home.

Folkgirl DH was only doing it 'for a laugh'. He is bright but has zero common sense and completely lacking in social situations.

Are the Mensa tests updated frequently? I wonder if they're harder now than they were, say, 20 years ago (or am I being Daily Mailish thinking we're brighter these days??)

OP posts:
philmassive · 10/01/2012 12:42

The only person I know ( in RL, not you lot on here) who was a member of Mensa was a complete fuckwit. That's all you need to know IMO Wink

iggly2 · 10/01/2012 13:16

I loath IQ tests (and think they can be dangerous as parents/person taking the tests may inadvertantly be placing pressure on the child/person to live up to the test results). Alternatively they maybe discounting a childs/adults ability on how well they perform on a test.

They get better results with practise (try it yourself) so are not great at testing for "innate intelligence" or whatever they claim to. If taken too young (pre 7 years) results are even more dubious-it is very easy to get high results if tutored or if child spends a lot of time in company of adults 1-2-1 (eg for preschoolers points can be given for differentiating pink and purple). Some people get nervous at tests and underperform, alternatively if conducted by a educational psychologist they should be taken on a 1-2-1 basis in an environment very different to that of a school (so should you expect the same results of the child in a school environment?).

The Flynn effect means that every decade population IQ goes up 3 points. Interestingly they do not think this is a generation/hereditary effect so environment could be more important. So not only do we want our children to read more quickly we also get them "IQ" style educational toys to advance them at ......being good at IQ style tests.....

iggly2 · 10/01/2012 13:23

Results should never be taken alone and could be useful with assessing neurological disabilities/learning requirements and capabilities which they were designed for innitially. The use of the test results now seem to have changed beyond recognition .

entropyglitter · 10/01/2012 13:24

well its better than hand writing analysis (as part of a job interview for instance) but not by much.

iggly2 · 10/01/2012 13:29

Ps read abit about it ages ago so please feel free to correct!

I'm reasonably sure of the 3 points per 10 years though Smile. As that bit was on "QI" (I love Steven Fry). Apparently in the States you cannot be charged with muder if your IQ is bellow 60 (actually think this is quite a valid use of the test!). So they have to adjust any of the defendents previous IQ results for this effect.

CailinDana · 10/01/2012 13:34

I used to be a developmental psychologist and I carried out IQ tests daily. For me they were just useful tool for comparing children for research purposes. All you can say about an IQ test is that on that particular test, given a particular scale you score such and such. If someone scores more than you it means they were better at that test, and there could be any number of reasons for that. Making any further claims than that doesn't really work.