To think that something has gone seriously wrong with our public transport policy if despite high petrol prices its now cheaper for me to drive to work?

[headfairy]

Last week I was on a course so didn't have to go up to town and I'm probably coming to these train fare rises a bit late.... My single train fare is now more expensive than driving to and from work (I get my transport home paid for as I usually finish work after midnight)

Thats got to be all wrong hasn't it? If only from an environmental point of view.

Same here OP. It's the same price for me to drive to work as it is for the train! But I take the train as it gives me ten minutes to sit and knit or read in peace, which I don't get at any other time of the week! I do have to leave an hour before my start time though, unlike when I drive and only have to leave 20mins before work!

It doesn't really encourage public transport does it?

I had a public transport lecturer who made a very strong argument for taxis being considered - especially in rural areas where one/two people on a bus isn't efficient - part of a public transport network.

Also, multiple people in a car isn't (really) a problem. The biggest problem and contributor to congestion (at least, from a start slowly and work towards environmentally/economically sustainable network) are the hundreds of people who travel in individually using private cars every day.

Some councils (Newcastle is fantastic in this area) are focussing on improving their networks - with virtually no money - but until they get there car sharing is probably the best solution for people who genuinely can't use public transport.

-Britain mainly has a Private Transport system, ergo.....

Ironically, I have just discovered that my train ticket is now twenty pence more expensive, making driving even cheaper! Had to use my card as I only had for quid and needed four ten :(

As per my earlier point. The train companies have to cover their capital costs in the fare they charge - so it is unfair and misleading to to say that your capital cost of buying a car is irrelevant. To get a fair comparison between owning a car and train fares you have to include capital costs.

so it is unfair and misleading to to say that your capital cost of buying a car is irrelevant

No it isn't if you would own a car anyway regardless of whether you take public transport.

YANBU.

Public transport is especially useless in rural areas - not the fault of the bus companies because how on earth can they cater for such diverse journeys?

I have to use my car for my work anyway so even if I could get a bus that ran to one destination I would not be able to get to the next and so on.

The genie escaped decades ago and, given the way peple live and work these days there is no way public transport will ever take over from the car.

At the moment we are borrowing a car from one of DHs mates. He hasnt passed his test yet as he failed it last time. He said to DH he could borrow it for as long as he needed it. We dont have funds to even buy a cheap banger so we have our own car. My dad and stepmum said at christmas oh get the train to leeds for work, its the only other way adn its cheaper.

:/ no its not, its £10 per day in petrol from where we live to leeds which is an 75-80ish mile round trip, on the train it would cost DH £14.30 from our train station to Leeds train station, not including the half hour bus journey he would also need to get to the other part of leeds, where he works.

Fucks me off when people say 'oh get the train'

At christmas my sister said about going shopping to doncaster and mentioned that we'd get the train and it worked out £10 cheaper to go in the car.

Its not meant to be like that!!!

A friend was telling me yesterday that for less than the price of the train tickets he hired a car plus driver to take him to Plymouth from London! It is cheaper to take a taxi than the train! Very, very wrong.

YANBU for a single ticket, but is it still cheaper than buying seasonal tickets, if you travel a lot, or buy an off-peak ticket?

It's only worth taking the train to avoid spending time at the airport and because train stations are closer to city centres, or if you take the sleeper and avoid hotel costs, or if you want to spend that time working/having a nap instead of driving.
But you are also right that public transport should be much cheaper than single travel.
At least in London it is made worse by the salaries and perks that tube drivers, mainly, command.

www.fleetnews.co.uk/files/iam2011.pdf

According to some stats here, the average british family spends over £3000 per year on their car, or £280 per month (and that was in 2008).

I think far too many people think of a car as something automatic that a person has to have. Many families I know will have two cars. In my case, I live in a city, and therefore it's cheaper for me not to have a car, and so I choose not to.

Sorry to post and run, at work and been a bit busy this morning... I only travel to work 3 days a week so a season ticket for me works out more expensive than buying individual tickets.

I do get the point made by the poster about the other costs of driving to work ie the environmental costs, pollution and congestion. I don't travel at the peak rush hour, I leave home at 9.30-10am so I avoid the worst and most congested times. Pollution I don't really have a leg to stand on, but this is what I mean about our transport policy being totally out of whack. Everyone has to put their own financial position first realistically and you're never going to persuade people to be greener en masse if it's going to be much more expensive, so something needs to be done to improve the efficiency and the cost of public transport.

We have some of the highest government subsidies for our rail network, and some of the highest fares, yet some of the crappest service in Europe. Privatisation of the rail network IMO was botched and we need someone with a long term vision and some bollocks a spine to actually do something about it rather than tinkering around the edges.

if me and the family (4 of us) chose to go from Plymouth to Darlington to visit family it would cost more than a fortnight abroad! where is the sense in that? I used to be able to fly to Newcastle and get a train to Darlington from there cheaper than the train journey (before the airport here closed) madness no incentive to stop using the car if there is more than one of going

£3000 per yera on their car! I know we spend much less than that. But there are lots of people who replace their care regularly and buy expensive new cars, so perhaps not too surprising. But if like me you just want to get from a to b, it can be done much cheaper than this.

perhaps, but £25 a week on fuel is £1300 a year. Add £400 insurance, £150 road tax, £300 on servicing, etc, you're already at £1850. You only need £1250 per year on the cost of purchase and you're there. And many families are running two of these. It amazes me how many people can afford to run so many cars.

Eccles WRT to getting to Darlington, go to EastCoast and on the right hand side there is an option to sign up for email alerts when your chosen dates are released. That website will also (when you search) tell you what the cheapest possible option for your chosen journey is, even if no tickets are left for that day/time, so you have some idea whether you are getting a good deal or not. They also operate a rewards scheme so you can get money off future purchases.

The other option from Plymouth would be to sign up for EC alerts for ticket releases and then look on Cross Country's website once you receive your alert (companies mostly release tickets at the same time) as they offer a 10% online discount on their own-brand tickets (EC also offer 10% off their own-brand tickets when booked online). The EC website would also let you know (through their pricing displays) how good the CrossCountry website price is.

All that and I forgot to explain: the reason you want tickets when they're released is because they get more expensive as you get closer to date of departure (like airlines) as they have limited numbers of each price bracket. Investing in a family railcard might also be worth the money on longer/frequent journeys although EC also do a group booking discount without needing a railcard.

charmingly thanks very much,still expensive though even when I have booked in advance. give the badge an extra polish from me though

I love the fact that my dissertation means I get to spend all day looking up trains, delays and timetables long amounts of time doing Serious Studying.

other problem is ds1 is no longer a child fare and ds2 will not be for much longer so family card not an option for long. have had some good deals in the past however but it is still cheaper for 4 in a car

good luck with the dissertation

i must live in a good area for public transport, a day ticket here is £2.75 and you can catch as many buses you want ( i catch 4 so 69p a ride) also the bus comes every 10 minutes

No time to read the thread but.. YANBU!!
My bus fare has gone up by 12 % !
It now costs nearly £4 to get into town and back.
I worked out that If I had a car that was less than a grand, plus insurance, as long as it was a low mileage jobbie it wouldnt cost me any more.
I'm sorry, but when the fuck did travelling on public transport become a luxury?

Not only is it really really expensive-it's shit!

And the traffic! The traffic in the small town where I live is frikkin choking the place, it's too dangerous for kids to walk to school, ds and I have nearly been run over twice when twats have just ignored red lights and kept rolling at the crossings, and the buses are getting empty.

Because no fucker can afford them!

Seriously pissed off!

Where I used to live, if two people were going shopping in town they would get a taxi because it was cheaper than the bus!!

Thanks :)

As I said upthread (please don't think I was having a go) the biggest problem is single occupancy vehicles. I went away for Christmas with my parents and we drove down in a people carrier as, in order to save money on the holiday cottage, we brought our own bedding. TBH we probably used more £ in petrol and by taking a large car (I have a small KA left over from working in the middle of nowhere that sits on my parents' drive... it's too old to be worth selling) than we saved on the bedding. By the time I'd thought that through we were already there and it would have taken too long to sit down with a pen and paper and work it all out. Multi-occupancy vehicles are mostly more efficient for families, particularly if you have a lot of luggage or need to make multiple trips. The only people multiple trips on public transport works out for are those who get free bus passes.

There is a strong economic case for the government to invest in public transport to encourage people to switch when they can (because some journeys will always need private vehicles) - businesses would probably pay a lot of money to have guaranteed delivery/journey times, which they can't get now (in terms of hours, rather than days).

The EU vision (v idealistic, but interesting) is for trans-continental public transport (e.g. high speed rail, long distance coaches, bus/tram networks) with short end-journey trips, e.g. from the bus stop to your house/station to work being made by cycle, foot or hiring electric/environmentally friendly vehicles.