Not exactly a Golly thread?

[smoggii]

melandsteff.com/Page%201.jpg

My little girl received Lois (but in a different dress) in the above pic for her 1st Birthday yesterday. Grandad bought her because she is a lovely hand made dolly in a beautiful dress. PIL said that these dolls come in all races and are just lovely.

I held my tongue said thank you for the gift and decided to do some googling before making my mind up what to do.

I am fundamentally opposed to Gollys, they enforce racist stereotypes from a bygone era and i don't care how nostalgic people feel about them, i don 't think we should return to a time when they were considered acceptable.

So i've looked at the website and they appear to do a range intended to depict different races but, all seem to be enforcing racial stereo types and one of the black dolls is called Golly.

I'm happy for my little girl to play with all types of toys (providing they are not offensive) and none of the dolls are a true representation of what humans look like but it's the fact that this one is so much like a Golly that you immediately think of them when you see it.

AIBU to hide it away. I don't want to chuck it because I think PIL bought the dolly because of the quality and didn't think about it. They are not remotely racist (unlike my own parents who say they're not but are).

Or should I accept that this is not a Golly but simply a black rag doll?

Yes. Because it is a Golly Wog. It looks like a racist caricature.

That was to OhDeeryme

OhDeeeryMe - As has been said elsewhere on this thread, the problem is the history of racist stereotyping that golly dolls are part of. Here is information about that history.

Oh, for Heaven's sake! Here we are with political correctness again. For many years, children in this country had black dolls and called them golliwogs. We also had white dolls of varying sorts that did not really look like real life people. Why should we change the way we live just because one or two people might be 'offended'. Who decided that we could not have golliwogs? Do gooders who usually spoil everything for us.

If you are younger than, say, 40 you probably have no conception of how our lives have changed because of others interfering in our lives - and not just in what dolls we may have without 'offending' anyone.

Yes Mabel, but the white dolls are not based on horrendous racist caricatures, are they?
Like it or not, Black people have had a long history of being treated as second class, and at times less than human.
A doll that celebrates this vile history is loathsome, and we can well live without it.

And "political correctness" was actually a term invented by the liberal left in California in the 70's as a mildly ironic way of saying if someone was "on side" or not.
It just means being aware of racism, sexism etc rather than pretending they don't exist.
HTH.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll
"I don't think there is anything wrong with a black doll, the white ones don't look like any white person I know either. That is the nature of dolls, what with them not being real and all."

No-one's arguing that their's something wrong with a black doll per se, dolls of all races are a good idea. I agree that dolls don't exactly like humans. The problem is that this particular black doll is a gollywog, a caricature of a black person designed by white people at a time when white people were lynching black people, denying them the vote, imprisoning them after unfair trials and writing segregation laws.

Through childrens toys, jokes, black-face minstrel shows and books, white people spread these stereotypes of black people being stupid, a danger to themselves, and actually needing to be enslaved for their own good. Most white people had no real interaction with black people so they believed these stereotypes.

If there were no history of racism and no context to this, yes this doll would be fine. But thinking that the context doesn't matter would be rather like decorating your house with swastikas because they are a pretty pattern.

Talking of decorating houses and offending people reminds me of this story

If they called it something it her than golly, would that be ok?

I think they were a bot stupid Ito call it that, and I think the word golly is easily going to be seen as offensive, but that doesn't mean the doll should be.

The attitudes that existed around the original gollywog dolls no longer exists in mainstream society, so I don't think the dolls need to be treated in the same way as they used to be anymore.

PS. IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll
I'm not saying you intend to be racist, sorry if it came across that way. It's not your fault that our racist culture told us that gollys were harmless fun. Unfortunately though, they are not.

"The attitudes that existed around the original gollywog dolls no longer exists in mainstream society, so I don't think the dolls need to be treated in the same way as they used to be anymore."

Hmm, this is a fair question. I think if the majority of black people said that they were fine with it, then it would be okay to use them again. But as black people still say they find them racist, and as they have very good historical reasons for saying so, I'd question why white people would want to own one. I wouldn't want to have something in my house that is to many people a symbol of a horrific and shameful part of history.

I didn't think you where accusing me of racism, but thank you. My reply would have been much harsher if I thought I was being accused of something I hate!

Maybe I'm being to idealistic. I do understand all the negative points surrounding gollys, but at the same time I think it would be really nice to be able to get to a stage where gollys were just seen as nothing more than a black doll. That's all they were to me as a child just a doll with a big smile, and I'm sure that's all they are to today's children.

We managed to get over the whole Nazi thing and see that Germany is not all Nazis. It would be lovely if we could get over the golly thing and see that not everyone who likes them is racist.

I agree that if people say they are offended by them, then we should take notice of that, but Im not sure the majority of black people are offended by them. Of course some are, but there will always be people that are offended by something they don't need to be offended by.

Maybe it's too soon and the history is not far enough into the distance enough for gollys to be widely acceptable, and I agree that the more traditional looking gollys should stay in the past. But some of them are just black dolls, and it would be a shame if they were gone forever because many people like them who are not at all racist.

Just as a point of history the word 'wogs' doesnt stem from golly-wog at all. It refered to the native labourers on the Suez Canal and is an acronym of Worker On Government Service.

it was also ok to call black people darkies (that was not even considered racist by many) and call the corner shop run by indians (mainly) the paki shop

it is not anymore because as a society we have thankfully become more aware and what is and what is not considered offensive

would you wear your collection of badges while in an area with a high population of black people no of course not unless you wanted someone to tell you how disrespectful you are or would you tell them to stop being so foolish you know what is offensive to them and what is not

well those workers would not have been european would they

Regardless of whether they were Europen it was an acronym to describe workers. It wasn't derogatory. It became derogatory of course over time because people take words and manipulate them for their own use (eg "gay"). Evetually it will pass into history. I live in mixed area and I never hear the word used.

People always look for offence where none is intended.

I stand by they are bloody ugly dolls and look like cabbage patch creatures. Not too sure what to make of the mouse one.

My cousin sent my baby a beautifully made (and I think expensive) doll at christmas - but it is undoubtably a golly, not even just a black doll but the full golly costume. I am so surprised, she lives in australia and maybe not the history of them there, but she lived in the UK till late teens and certainly I was aware of their racist origin at school.

Like you OP I have wondered what to do with it and if I am overreacting. Back of the cupboard I ithink, I won't ban it but I won't let it become a favourite either (and it is not being taken outside ever!).

People always look for offence where none is intended

oh ok then i shall tell that to the next person i call wog and inform them it is ok they need to look up the history of the word, and while i am at it will also call those that i know who are from pakistan paki, after all it is just a shorting of the word

The origin of the word "wog" has been much disputed over the years. I was told many years ago it stood for "wily oriental gentleman"! I don't think anyone is too sure of its real origin,but whenever it's used,it's someone wanting to be offensive.

That's it exactly Freudian: A lot of people on this thread are doing this faux innocence. Hey! It's just a doll!

You wouldnt have swastika stencils up your stairs and go "Oh, it's just a pattern! The Jews aren't still going on about that are they?!"

i was thinking about barbie, dd has barbies but i would not buy her or really want her to have one of these dolls, but Im not sure, morraly they are that different are they?

Well said Northern

Swastika is subjective - its part of Indian art and still appears on the subcontinent.

yeah thats what the bloke i was seeing for 3 months said after I kicked his swasticker tatooed body out my bed. That may have washed had those ugly red things not been accopmanied by an eaqually as ugly british bull dog in a union jack t-shirt tatooed on his arm aswell. , I actualy had not expected he was racist I was willing to assume he was from that. That experience actually made me feel a bit sick.