To be worried about how my babys liver copes with all this or am I being neurotic?

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Quite possibly neurotic. It wouldnt have been the first time.

I'll make it as short as possible with all the facts.

Baby 7 months old, breastfed (not sure that makes any difference though) numerous health problems that are currently under control for now.

Except hes had ear pain for nearly 2 months now. We've seen 6 different GP's all of which say the same thing, its red and inflamed. It burst about to weels back and some awful stuff came out. I was hoping that'd be the end.

Ive had a 3 week long ear infection that Im struggling to get rid of so went to the GP myself and they saw him too. I explained the ear pain, how he cant sleep at night as its worse (even if not laid flat) wakes a LOT (every 15-20 mins yanking at his ears in his sleep). One ear 'looks fine' the other has 'fluid in the middle ear'. This could be infection or fluid from a virus/cold.

Given antibiotics (again) day 5 so far no different (tbh if he has the same ear infection as me they wouldnt help wrong bacteria) so we're managing the pain

Except, that wasnt working well. Hes a very big baby the weight of an average 2 year old (at 50th centile, hes at 99th) so for his weight they say he can have up to 7.5mls of neurofen. No wonder 2.5mls I was giving didnt work.

So now at night I give him calpol twice and 5mls neuro once to see him through.

It works, he sleeps well (until the meds wear off the difference is clear). I thought it might be placebo so gave him 1ml last night no such luck.

Thing is, hes been having pain relief most days (with a week break, probably not a full one) for nearly 2 months and now Ive upped his neurofen. And hes on antibiotics.

My worry is, he is the weight of a 2 year old but has a functioning liver of a 7 month old.

All these meds seem like a lot to me, for too long. Ive been to the GP so many times, hes being referred to a paed for other health reasons (serious, mulitple food allergies) so I can mention to them but I doubt it would change much.

Am I BU to be worrying over this??

poor little man sounds awfull. It does sound a long time to take medication and would worry me also. I think that neurophen will be better for ear pain than the calpol, are you alternating between the both? I would attempt to get trhrough the day with as little as possible as it is difficult to accretain if you are keeping to the recomended dosage through out a 24 hr period due to the overlap, etc.

sounds good that the gp has made a refferal, however could you return and request the gp prescribes drops, as that would seem better if you think it is bacterial.

Yes, drops good idea. I should ask them about that. I have no idea if its bacterial tbh. It could just be fluid.

I try not to give him meds in the day but just now it took ages to get him down because he was Pulling his ears and woke after 20 mins, tired. So he really could have done with them.

I feel guilty now for not. Argh!

I know a lot of people think this is rubbish but we truly had success for my child's ear infections by going to a craniosacral therapist.

Paedatric medicines are designed around the 'coping' ability of children's livers. They do have an ideal maximum dosage, but your doctors will be know this. Your doctors will not be dosing according to weight.

Be careful of taking any unqualified advice on what to possibly put in the ear, as this can increase the chance of infection. He should be referred to Ear , Nose and throat Clinic, as well.

My youngest was similar and it took ages to get a diagnosis on Glue Ear. Sometimes you do just have to wait for them to grow up and for the Ear canal to widen

YANBU to bej worried, of course not.

I am sure the fact that you are bfing will be helping a lot, all that magical stuff in there is sure to be doing him some good.

And livers are able to regenerate I think, so that's got to be a good thing?

Have you looked into any alternative things that might help, like cranial osteopathy or anything?

I have no idea what to advise, sorry! But you have no reason to feel guilty.

Next time you have an appointment, have a list of the questions you want to ask written down, and have someone else with you so you can have help remembering what they tell you and someone to discuss it with afterwards.

If you would try a non invasive treatment as well as Craniosacral therapy, as sujested by Cervix, baby tapping works, as well, to drain fluid.

I can understand why you are concerned about your baby.

However, it is unlikely that there is a mismatch between his weight and the size of his liver. There is a linear relationship between liver size and body weight, i.e. it grows to fit the overall size of a body. So, for instance, if a donor gives part of his/her liver for transplant, that partial liver will grow to fit the new person in a matter of weeks.

1. yes paediatric medications are designed to suit babies' systems. Bigger baby = bigger liver = bigger processing power.

1. even in babies (and animals) there is a psychological component to pain. By giving adequate pain relief regularly you prevent a vicious circle where pain causes anxiety causes pain etc. So keep giving good pain relief: calpol every 6 hours and nurafen every 8 hours.

1. I would now be putting my foot down and demanding a specialist paediatric ENT opinion. It's not fair that your child (and your sleep) is having to suffer like this.

1. I personally do not believe in alternative medicine. However, I also think that used in addition to conventional medicine (ie used as a complimentary therapy) it has a really useful role for some people. If complimentary therapies are your bag, then definitely seek them out in addition to conventional medicine.

'Your doctors will not be dosing according to his weight' Thats exactly what he did. He asked how many kilos he was (10.4) and worked out the maximun mls he could have. At 7 months the bottle says he can have 2.5mls of neurofen. His weight says he can have 7.5mls.

Regarding cranial osteopathy, he had that at 3 months for reflux (which turned out to be a milk intolerance which turned into a severe dairy allergy) and she said everything was ok. So can cranial osteopathy still help? Or does it mean we've already exhausted that option because everything is where it should be?

Thank you very much for the liver info. That really makes me feel better.

Monday we'll go back and ask for an ENT referral.

As for alternative meds, we're seeing a homeopath next Saturday. I know people think ita BS but nothing else has worked so far. Not even slightly it just gets worse.

My DD wasn't suitable for Grommits, so i did lots of 'alternative' therapies. There was little the hospital could do. My DD found relief, so i carried on.

They are only an alternative to Western medicine and as long as you read around what you are thinking of trying, then go ahead. Interestingly enough, both Beduin and Chinese (these are the cross cultural studies that i have read), don't suffer from alot of these conditions because of the 'alternative' practices of their culture(and remember massage was thought to be rubbish at one time). Baby Indian head massage is no more mainstream.

Always go to your GP and hospital appointments, of course, but you may find the doctors recommend alternatives.

Thanks, we have actually tried acupuncture. That helped his urticaria a LOT. But she did something for his ears, didnt make a jot of difference.

I will definitely stick to normal appointments etc as well though.

ENT, definitely.

I went private with DS1 in the end - more or less constant ENT infections.

They whipped his adenoids out, and he's been pretty good ever since. He used to get an allergic rash (similar to your boy's I think) in reaction to infection, every time, which would be there for ages too, he hasn't had that in 2 years since the op.

ENT will also be able to look at glue ear etc - I'm convinced part of DS1's poor speech development was down to the ear infections.

(Hello, BTW, Nac here! ;)

Hi Nac, thanks.

Hes had blocked ears once but since that one time the doctors have always said theres no wax in his ears, so could that eliminate glue ear?

I think he has more allergies then we realise. Ive been Googling and chronic ear pain/fluid/infection can be strongly linked to food allergies.

No, glue ear is further in!

Anecdotally, I've often been told that bigger babies are more prone to ENT things, possibly just because I've had 3 big ones that all have been!

Glue Ear is further in, but the baby hasn't been seen, so at the moment, she doesn't have a clear diagnosis. As said my DD went through similar and it took until she was 18 months old for us to find out what was happening.
She didn't appear to have wax, either, it was on my insistence that she was sent to ENT.

I was convinced that my DD speach problems was because of Glue Ear but she got a proper diagnosis at the age of 8 and it wasn't really connected. She is 14 now.

Has the GP done an ear swab? If it is an infection it might be resistant to certain ABs. My DD had constant ear infections from 8 months, dripping pus on a frequent basis, speech issues etc and eventually grommits in and adenoids out at 5.
During that excessively long time the AB drops rather than oral, and swab to see what she was resistant too made biggest difference.

Glue ear is to do with narrow eustachian tubes. Afaik wax doesn't have much to do with it. I had terrible glue ear, but have never had a wax problem. There is one theory that I read somewhere that said that a lot of ENT problems are caused by face/skull shape. Little noses and flattish faces could be linked to the shape of the inner ear and related problems. I definitely have both and even now at 36 still have problems, corrected by Grommits.

sorry you are having such a tough time, and sorry I don't have time to read all the posts, but my nephew had terrible problems with his ear, his eardrum burst several times and he'd be absolutely screaming from the pain.

He had grommets fitted a couple of years ago when he was 6, and fine now, his hearing had been affected. I think you said you had a referral, please make sure that you are taken seriously, as this problem can keep happening.

Some children have a "weakness", with my nephew, it was his ears. With ds1, it's his chest, been in hosp 3 times with pneumonia, and now his little brother is following suit. (must stop giving them cigarettes all the time. Kidding! Non-smoking household and not in contact with anyone who smokes)

Good luck and maybe try a warm damp flannel to soothe his ear, or warm hot water bottle during the day, to minimise meds.

I had absolutely no idea about that and glue ear. They just kept telling me it wasnt blocked with wax so I just assumed glue ear wouldnt be our issue.

I'll definitely ask for a referral.

paracetamol is dealt with by the liver. I seem to vaguely rememvber that ibuprofen is dealt with by the kidneys and that is why you can take both together. you could speak to the pharmacist who will be able to look up all the relevent info.

All drugs are dealt with by the liver AFAIK.
Have you tried a hot water bottle? Before DD had her grommets fitted, she got a lot of relief from one.

They are both metabolised by the liver but ibuprofen is also passed out unchanged by the kidneys. Removal of paracetamol is almost entirely dependant on the liver. Interestingly (or maybe not if you aren't a pharmacy geek) children actually metabolise some drugs quicker than adults (not sure about paracetamol and ibuprofen specifically). So long as he doesn't have an empty tummy when he has the neurofen I wouldn't worry about using it for pro-longed periods in the short term while you get to the root of his ear problems.

Cranial osteopathy may well help as mentioned. It should really be done several times a year to ensure that the changes created by your baby growing can be supported if they cause compression. But your CO should advise on how often and whether you may need to get him to have a course of treatment.

What CrotchFlakes said - I've had some absolutely horrible ear-infections int he past that have taken 3 different goes with anti-biotics - they're reluctant to pull out the big guns though, and only got them on the worst occasion when they took a swap and determined that I had something particularly resistant and nasty in there. Weeks of taking the wrong anti-bs does no-one anygood. The right ones should show improvement within days (hours in that case for me)

you mentioned allergies? in that case it can be a infection of ezcema in the ear, or glue ear /infection can be related to milk intolerence.

hope you get this sorted. wouldnt bother with homeopathy myself. check with allergy clinic if you have been reffered, they may be able to rule out allergy causes.

good luck.