AIBU to think that Cameron is telling nurses to do things that they already do?

[MyNameIsNotNurse]

Or aim to do given the oppertunity.
Link

David Cameron's 'ideas'
Hourly checks on patients to make sure they have had enought to eat/drink and are comefortable.
Isn't this just basic care?
Also to have members of the public doing spot checks on their local hospitals, isn't this just going a bit too far?

I would really like him to do a 12 hour shift on a busy ward, with sick people needing more than just the hourly walk around to make sure that things are ok.
What about the patients who are in need of 15 minute observations. Patients with poor mobility who take more than 30 seconds to get to the toilet and needs assistance every step of the way. What about the drug rounds? Then multiply that by 30 pateints for 2 staff nurses (some with little experiance) If 1 patient is really ill thats 1 nurse down so 30 patients beeing looked after by 1 nurse, and maybe 1 or 2 HCA.

Why does he not discuss the staffing issues, which most wards have the mountains of paper work which each and every nurse has to get through every shift which takes away from the care of patients.
Most nurses I know stay behind to finish paperwork, turn into work when they or their family is not well, go without breaks, work 12hours a shift, do extra shifts and Given up our measily 3% payrise over 3 years.

He's just making a lot of noise saying we should do things we already do in order that the public think we're not doing them and we lose support?

perfectly !

rather than just saying "grrr fire all the managers and stop pointing fingers at us" then continuing to work in those conditions and expecting someone else to change it (with no evidence from the floor)

because IMO there ARE things that COULD be changed or improved from the bottom up. Now. Today. Without firing a manager or getting rid of a target. The front like isn't infaliable with no room for improvement. Not EVERYTHING is the fault of the government and management. There are problems with the CULTURE of nurses comming from nurses which could be changed BY nurses.

Reduce, I don't mean to come across as defensive, as I can put my hand on my heart and say that I do the absolute best job that I can for my patients, on every single shift. Therefore, I feel no need to be defensive, as it's absolutely not my fault if things don't get done - it's the fault of the managers who expect me to do more than is physically possible. As for the incident reports issue, the computers are in clinical areas. I cannot sit in a manically busy clinical area filling in a form for 20+ minutes (really couldn't care less how long you think forms take to fill in with your PA strikethrough in previous post, you don't work at my trust) while patients and colleagues can see me sitting at a computer as the department combusts around me. I mean I literally can't, I'd be told to move my arse and do the form 'later' by the NIC. I know, I've tried. A lot. I'll continue trying, but 9 times out of 10 it really is physically impossible.

However, having said all of that, I forgot to say that I do agree with certain points made by Reduce and others, namely that at present nurses do not deliver care as it should be delivered. I just don't agree with those who think it's because we don't want/can't be bothered to.

Are you a nurse reduce?

there's more of it!

It is bloody hard and I'm weary of standing my ground and saying "no, I am going to fill it in" against very very strong peer pressure. No sod that, bullying. I know its seriously hard to keep fighting for better, I do but a hell of a lot of nurses get a very institutionalised attitude very quickly. The old "I've done my best I couldn't have done any more today" now off I trot to sleep soundly.

oh definatly, there are some rotten staff (both RN's and HCA's) I have worked with (and reported) but nothing got done about it they claimed they were being bullied and went off sick.
It's sad because they bring the nurses who do a good job down with them.

This time last year my sister was admitted with pneumonia. I thought she was going to die. After just being moved to a ward she waited 2 hours for pain relief. I asked 4 times. The last time I asked, I counted 8 nurses standing behind the desk doing absolutely nothing. 8.
I'm sure there are wards/depts do this basic care as as a matter of course, but it can't hurt surely.

Same hospital, I complained about postnatal care. If my family hadn't brought me food, I would have gone without for a day.

lostboys, are you sure they were all nurses? Can only go by my trust, but 8 nurses on one ward would be unheard of! On the other hand, lots of non-nurses, including some clerical staff, wear very nurse-like uniforms. A more cynical mind might ponder the possibility that this is done deliberately to make it look like there are more nurses on duty...

Where I work, we recently had an email from our management stating we were not allowed to have a drink at the desk while we do our paperwork. It had followed a complaint from a member of the public that we 'were all sat down drinking tea.'
There is a massive amount of paperwork and documentation in the job and lots of data to input into computers. Quite often, this is the only time I get to sit down and have a drink in a 14 hour shift. But now I can't because some member of the public with no understanding of the roles in my job thinks that I'm sat down doing nothing.

As long as you are working then what harm does drinking a cup of tea do? Madness!!

When I was in hospital there was no nursing care as such at all. I had a bad reaction to the anaesthetic and was vomiting and retching all evening post op.

I was lucky in that other more mobile patients came to help, fetching me a sick bowl and getting me tissues. I had no help getting out of bed, no help washing and was nearly given an overdose of iv painkillers due to a dose not being recorded on my chart.

At night I could see how short staffed the ward was and the nurses were working flat out. But this doesn't excuse the morning shift - 2 nurses telling me to get out of bed so it could be made, not helping me with any personal care although I told them how weak and tired I felt, leaving me in a dirty op gown. Then chatting over me and completely ignoring all the patients in the bay as they went round diligently making beds.

One elderly woman opposite me had had major surgery and was bleeding - she was left in a bloodied bed, unwashed in her op gown for nearly 2 days. She was crying due to the lack of care.

So yes, short staffing plays a part. But I also saw poor care, disinterested and indifferent staff.

Doesn't give a 'professional' image, does it.

I am sure DC's suggestions will be introduced but god forbid we miss a check as we will probably have to fill in at least 4 documents justifying why we missed it.

Yet if the person you care for as a family member is in hospital for a length of time,the carer gets their Carers Allowance stopped. Even if you are going in every day to see them and help care for them on a ward that is short staffed they stop the Carers Allowance. The reason? Because the NHS is deemed to be caring for them not you. You couldnt make it up. This has not happened to me personally but it has happened to other carers who i talk to on another forum.

This has made me so cross I've just emailed both the RCN and CallMeDave. Not sure why as if I even get a reply it's likely to just make me more cross, but it made me feel better for a few seconds.

I'm afraid my experiences of hospital stays have been very poor.

Lots of time spent by nurses gossiping (including very loudly in the middle of the night).

And what about serving meals that are either slightly warm (rather than stone cold) and marginally nutritious.

Only one of the nurses seemed to actually really care about caring.

BDATO don't you see how the IMPRESSION you give is as important as the care - building trust with the patients and relatives!

The drinks thing is old news BTW most trusts havent allowed that for a while (but should provide water coolers instead)

A more private sector attitude from nurses would go a long way in patients experience of NHS care. More smiling, talking, pride in presentation. NONE of that takes any more time. You wouldn't see someone on the till in a supermarket havin a cuppa would you? because it's not professional. It is very important to stay hydrated but you don't need cups of hot drinks at the station to do that (yes yes I know its not EASY to stay hydrated on a nursing shift, but it is POSSIBLE to do WHILE still being professional - thought it took me a few years of bad UTIs to get the hang of it I admit!)

One thing I noticed this morning: noone says "good morning" in the corridoor to anyone they don't know well. I did on my way in at 6.30 and one nurse did a double take to re-check if she knew me (she didn't but we were both going down the same corridoor to do the same job but not on the same ward), saw that she didn't recognise me, then decided to ignore me! imagine if you behaved like that to colleagues in the private sector? Never mind to clients/customers!

tbh, I don't think that a lot of nurses realise what nursing is supposed to be When I last worked on a ward the other RGN was doing jobs that the junior doctor used to do when I was training.

Too much paperwork as well.

One of our HCAs has been accepted to do her nurse training and, tbh, I wouldn't trust her to look after the cat. She's full of herself and has no empathy or even sympathy for the people that we're caring for.

We do more of what the essence of nursing is in the care home, but we still struggle daily with ensuring that people are fed enough and given frequent fluids. We often have to give them supplement drinks purely because we have too many people to give diet to and drinks are easier/quicker to take

When working as a senior staff nurse on an acute adult psych unit, my drug round used to start at 8 a.m and did not finish before 9.30 and sometimes went on till 10 a.m. The lunch one was a little shorter but evening and night meds, again took nearly two hours. We really have to concentrate and need 2 other staff to deliver drugs, fetch and carry. Now think of everything else.....

Yes I have had staff on my ward whom i would not leave in charge of changing a toilet roll when it came to their ability to care, empathise and think pro actively, rather then reactively. But it is so hard in the NHS, to get rid of crappy staff. They get so many chances.

More nurses on the ward would be helpful [and I mean fully trained nursing staff, not HCAs as a substitute]

Better pay and conditions for nurses. I used to work in Aus and there you were given a patient load of 4 patients not 15. We also had a powerful union who stood up for us and negotiated strongly on our behalf. Not like the piss weak RCN here.

Send a strong message that nurses and nursing as a profession are valued.

Get rid of the nursing deadwood. All nurses know they do exist, the lazy ignorant members of staff who do the bare minimum and are just waiting out their retirement package all the time complaining about how hard they have it.

The problem imo is that 'nurses' have become somewhat untouchable as there is a sense of guilt among the powers that be knowing that nurses are treated badly and disrespected as a profession.

Politicians don't want to lift the status of nurses as then they might actually demand to be paid more and be granted some control over their working lives.
So there exists an uneasy collusion, whereby management are aware of those nurses who are underperforming but they don't really want to get rid of them because then they might need to hire bright and clinically confident staff as replacement who might actually demand a better deal for themselves... The underperforming members of staff actually rarely create problems for management as they just want to do their hours and go home, they don't really want to be filling in incident forms or reporting on issues.

I feel there is real confusion about nursing at the moment. Society wants nurses to be educated, clever, caring, hands-on, practical, empathetic...
But they want all this at a bargain price. It takes a remarkably dedicated person to work as a nurse in the NHS ime.
I couldn't do it. I got out into another field where I get paid more and receive more respect and dare I say it, status in society. And all for retraining, not more training iyswim - my current role requires the same amount of training as a nurse but offers me so much more by way of working benefits and conditions.
It's a shame really as nursing could be a fantastic career option but at the moment it really is crap in so many ways

I worked on a short term contract on an elderly care ward. When my contract ended and the usual staff nurse returned (she'd been on the community for six months), all the other staff were dreading her return. She was a well known drunk and an incompetent and they all thought it was disgusting that they were losing a decent member of staff and getting her back.

"But it is so hard in the NHS, to get rid of crappy staff. They get so many chances"

so true , they KNOW that the worst that'll happen is a very gentle telling off and maybe an action plan.

Hiddenhome-

the staff you mention as dreading the return of this nurse- have they not read the clause in their NMC Code Of Conduct which states they are legally and professionally bound to report incompetence and anything/anybody that compromises good care? By staying silent, they would be seen as being just as unprofessional.

I know whistle blowing is very very hard on the whistle blower but collectively, it is easier to do.