AIBU to think that Cameron is telling nurses to do things that they already do?

[MyNameIsNotNurse]

Or aim to do given the oppertunity.
Link

David Cameron's 'ideas'
Hourly checks on patients to make sure they have had enought to eat/drink and are comefortable.
Isn't this just basic care?
Also to have members of the public doing spot checks on their local hospitals, isn't this just going a bit too far?

I would really like him to do a 12 hour shift on a busy ward, with sick people needing more than just the hourly walk around to make sure that things are ok.
What about the patients who are in need of 15 minute observations. Patients with poor mobility who take more than 30 seconds to get to the toilet and needs assistance every step of the way. What about the drug rounds? Then multiply that by 30 pateints for 2 staff nurses (some with little experiance) If 1 patient is really ill thats 1 nurse down so 30 patients beeing looked after by 1 nurse, and maybe 1 or 2 HCA.

Why does he not discuss the staffing issues, which most wards have the mountains of paper work which each and every nurse has to get through every shift which takes away from the care of patients.
Most nurses I know stay behind to finish paperwork, turn into work when they or their family is not well, go without breaks, work 12hours a shift, do extra shifts and Given up our measily 3% payrise over 3 years.

He's just making a lot of noise saying we should do things we already do in order that the public think we're not doing them and we lose support?

In the numerous occasions my grandmother has been an inpatient I have seen all types of nurses, the ones who have become embittered in their role and seem to take pleasure in the small power they hold over patients, young ones full of enthusiasm but unable to appreciate why this may not always go down well with older patients, experience nurses who have a wealth of knowledge and just hold wards together, empathic nurses who wear their hearts on their sleeves and brusque nurses who are not sociable but excel at what is needed... I have had my eyes open, they all differ because they are all normal people.

But the one thing they all have in common is a support structure at work which is set in a manner that sabotages their chances of being successful and rewarded in their chosen profession and then expects sacrifice and uncomplaining constant work...

If Cameron really gave a toss, he'd make the trust chief executive's job dependent on patient safety. At the moment short-staffing is A Good Thing for the bosses, as it cuts costs (not overall but in terms of that guy's bottom line). What keeps trust bosses awake at night is finances, not patient safety. They stand to lose their job if they overspend or don't please the Dept of Health. They won't lose their jobs if they employ too few nurses and patients suffer - not until it gets to Mid-Staffs scandal heights, and even then some of the people responsible have been promoted and are now in charge of large swathes of the NHS (Barbara Hakin, for one). And NHS and DH executives are very, very good at hounding whistleblowers out and gagging them - even though that's supposed to be illegal. Bastards.

(Having said that, there are good chief execs who do give a toss. But the demands on them from on high are to implement whatever the PM's latest wheeze is, to cut £20bn and to silence any whistleblowers.)

Do you really think that it is best to wash/assist someone in silence rather try to engage and chat with them in a 3 way conversation?
Just from this conversation you are able to asessing their speach, mental capasity, memory, Also you can determine if they have had a good night, and if not why not. It's not just making conversation to pass the time.

the other week I looked after someone who was 102! and he didn't want to be called by his first name, and I do not Lead anyone to saying do you mind if I call you it's what would you like us to call you?

I was not talking about engaging someone in a 3 way conversation. I was talking about 2 nurses talking over a patient while they undertake a task. And imo this is very common practice.

You also said - " In 10 years of working I have never ince come across some who has said call me Mr/Mrs X"

I simply didn't believe you that elderly patients were not saying they didn't want to be called by their first name without being led.

Well in my experience it is not, Nurses know that this is a cardinal sin and if caught it would be addressed, it would where I work anyway!

I obviously cant comment on how your complaint was managed as I wan't there but there is always someone above you can go to.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm not I have made mistakes in the past but I go to work with the intention of working and providing the best possible care for my patients. The majority who I have ever worked with feel the same, but you do always get the odd few who see work as a social get together, do minimal int he way of care, but believe me, if they are being intentionally lazy they get spoken to, not just by management but other staff. and told to pull their socks up or leave.

The RCN should be fighting for legal qualified staff/patient ratios. But they won't because they are useless.

As to the hourly checks, on a busy surgical ward with 16 patients to 1 RN (me) I still managed to make a visual and verbal check with all my patients every hour. Sure it meant my paperwork was not done until the end of my shift (unpaid) but it meant I could go home and sleep at night.

But what happens if you do this? Management then say your time management is rubbish - does not matter that all your patients have been fed, watered, toileted and communicated with. And most importantly, cared for.

Management do not care. But they should be using DC's comments about hourly checks to secure more QUALIFIED staff.

And they only reason I could stay after shift was because my dd was older. I appreciate that nurses with young ones to be picked up from school, childcare etc could not do that.

then don't believe me I'm not forcing you to. I'm just telling you of my experiences, and when I have called someone mr/mrs x their reaction is oh call me ... maybe we live in a friendlier area than you do I don't know.

IME complaints are brushed aside. And tbh I feel you did this with my points for quite a bit. I said at least 3 times about the issue of nurses talking over patients and made this clear. You responded 3 times brushing it aside or interpreting it as me complaining about a 3 way conversation - which would be a bizarre complaint to make. This is my experience in rl of how many complaints are dealt with.

Of course you can go higher, but I would only do this for major things. Otherwise I would constantly be complaining higher up. I have also been in the situation of relatives asking me not to say anything in case it affects their care - and from reading this is a common fear amongst elderly patients.

I live in a friendly northern town. And most elderly people over 80 ime do not want strangers calling them by their first name.

But if you feel strongly about these issues then you should be going higher up until you feel like the problem has been addressed properly. or maybe you also feel that these are quite petty points.

I am sorry if you felt like I brushed aside your point of patients being spoken over, all I can say that in my experience I have not spoken over a patient and would feel very odd if I just ignored the person I was offering care to, and therefore didn't understand why someone would have an issue with nurses engaging with a patient.

Wrt my comments - three way convos are fine and I've had a good laugh with patients and other staff

I agree that in most hospitals and wards it will still not be seen as acceptable to ignore a patient if two nurses were engaged in lifting/washing/toilet assisting. It's so ingrained in me that even when laying out a dead patient I would still address them and treat their body with dignity.
I don't work on the wards any longer though so can't comment except as a visitor to relatives. Some of my observations have been fantastic but some have not. Ironically the care my grandmother had at Queens Hospital in Romford (much criticised in the local press) was utterly fantastic while care my dying aunt received in a Chelmsford hospital was appalling with a nurse snapping at her.

agedknees - that's what my sister does; attend to her patients, look after them properly, and stay for hours beyond the end of her shift to do all the ruddy paperwork. Sometimes she has to stay late anyway because there's an incident of some sort (she works with people with LDS/mental health problems who are inpatients because they have physical health needs as well) so ends up picking her dd up from afterschool and taking her back to finish the sodding paperwork. It's shit. She's a damn fine nurse whose patients are properly looked after (and who fights their corner with any nurse or doctor who treats them like shit because they have LDs) but she has to fight the system and exhaust herself to do it.

Cameron doesn't give a toss and neither do half the people bitching on here

i was a nurse and i left because of the anger and vitriol that was directed at me by the public. that when i was a hard working and caring nurse.

they would have complained about anything at all because they were angry and guilty, and well they were projecting onto me

i was sexually assaulted, spat at, verbally abused and on one shift a colleague of mine was almost strangled by a patient with a catheter tube he had pulled out

So i am very angry about this pathetic sniping about tea breaks and uniform when most of you have no idea at all.

boglach, patients were angry and guilty? Guilty of what?

When I'm in hospital I'm generally grateful and a bit frightened.

I remember reading in the press - last year? - when someone in government who had had an operation on the NHS said he had had good care, but complained about nurses talking over him while they carried out a task. Lots of nurses called him a liar publically - at the same time lots of patients said they had experienced the same thing.

boglack - The public don't necessarily complain because they are guilty and projecting! I work with "challenging" families so I know first hand some of the people out there and how awful they can be. But people also complain because they see their loved ones vulnerable and ill, and not being looked after properly.

Poor care kills people, so it is not surprising relatives get upset about poor care - even if that is personally not your fault. Lots and lots of people don't know how to complain efectively or are not up to it when a relative is very ill. So they will complain to you.

Relatives often came through the door already Angry at you before they even clocked eyes on you

They were just that way out as people often are

I know from personal experience that some people are like that. But most people aren't

The one thing that would help would be to stop employing untrained Health Care Assistants dressed in nurses' uniforms.

I speak as a nurse who supervises HCAs in the community and I have to take responsibility for everything they do. Some are more reliable and competent than others, but they are cheaper to employ than nurses.

It may appear that there are 4 "nurses" on a ward, but 3 of them are probably not qualified, and are limited in what they are able to do. Meanwhile the poor qualified nurse is running round trying to do far too much.

It is a disgrace. If I was old and ill I would rather kill myself than go into a NHS hospital. Seriously.

So the abuse i was subjected to over the years was justified?

as a junior nurse on 16,000 a year working until i was burnt out?

groped, spat at, called a f*ing c*t, pregnant and no break for 12 hours?

No didn't think so

And lesley i know from experience that some nurses are like that but most aren't

I understand that most "nurses" on the ward are not qualified. But I really don't think uniforms is the issue. If most people realise these people are HCA's, they will still be unhappy if these staff are giving poor "nursing" care. After it is HCA's who largely carry out the tasks the public see as nursing.

boglach - No of course it wasn't justified. I don't think anyone has said it was.

And in the past the public also called all staff nurses including unqualified cadets. This really hasn't changed - although I know that in general there are less qualified nurses on the wards.

Exactly. They are not qualified, therefore even though they may carry out basic tasks, they don't have the knowledge or skills to actually give "nursing care". This is why things go wrong.