To wonder if you believe in Karma and to give me an example

[leprechauncream]

In general I feel very lucky and blessed in my life but, over the last couple of years, I have been betrayed/let down in a major way by two people I was close to - one personal and one work related. I feel very upset by this but am trying to move on as life is too short to let these things - which probably happen to everyone at some point - sour my life or other relationships.

I wouldn't want anything very bad to happen to anyone but, in relation to the person at work (who plotted and lied about me to improve her own prospects), I have to confess that I was not sorry to hear recently from a former colleague that this person is now encountering her own difficulties at work.

AIBU to feel like this? Has anyone had any similar experiences?

No, I don't think that something magical in the universe makes good things happen to you if you do good things, and bad things happen to you if you do bad things.

• suffering that is - not stupidity....

that's right Trills - if you do something that is intentionally unpleasant, it leads to negative thought patterns a lot of psychological stress - it isn't magic

Sort of. I think if you go around doing nasty things to people you breed bad blood and will eventually get your commuppence, rather than some sort of hippy dippy notion of 'karmic energy', iyswim?

No I don't believe in Karma, I think lots of thinks that happen are random and unexplainable. Bad things happen to good people and equally some horrible people seem to get away with doing awful things. Having said that I do try to treat others how I would wish to be treated and help those in need if I can - in the vague hope that it might earn me brownie points in this life or the next

'Do you believe that people always or sometimes get their "come-uppance" for waht they do or don't do?'

no. And I think to wish that they do is initself a nasty act and if it were true that everyone gets their 'come-uppance' then it would just be a circular thing in which every person is continually getting 'what they deserve'.

if you really think it's true then break the cycle by being forgiving and kind.

Sarahbumbarer - I agree that we don't need to discuss technicalities, but if people are using the term 'karma' and not understanding what the intended meaning is, then I feel a little (but not very) compelled to point out the original intended meaning. It's just that the way it is used quite often in the west is from an 'eye for an eye' point of view. I don't care what people use karma to mean, I certainly don't feel clever for mentioning the intended meaning (which is quite different) for those that might be interested.

Unfortunately bastards often win and bad things do happen to very nice people. If you go with 'sh*t happens' you're less likely to feel let down, out of control, or as if some higher power dislikes you, when something bad does happen.

I think it's up to you how you treat people and how you feel about yourself will follow from this. Just don't expect others to operate to the same standards, therefore don't expect them to feel bad about the same things as you, people do not operate within a single moral framework and, based on theirs, can feel very self-righteous about things you consider abhorrent. Try not to dwell on it - 'change the things you can, accept the ones you can't and have the wisdom to know the difference' is another good guide, I think.

If anyone really does believe in 'what goes around comes around' I'd be really interested to see their explanation for all the instances when this doesn't happen, along with a broad-based study with statistical analysis. Until then, I have no doubt that this works the same way as dreams and newspaper horoscopes coming true - people focus on the positives and ignore and forget the negatives.

There was a really interesting thread recently about attitudes to cancer and the need to 'fight'. The inference being that if fighting lets you win, then if you 'lose' it's because you've failed, which is rubbish of course, some cancers are stronger and faster than others. Throwing in guilt for having become ill in the first place is really not helpful, fair or based on anything demonstrable.

Sorry Cockneydad for some reason a couple of comments got right up my nose - not nec yours and I seem to be a bit more irritable than usual today. I just thought it was an intersting question regardless of the use of the word "karma" and did not deserve to be derailed by people being made to feel stupid for using the word. Lots of words get twisted or their meaning changed slightly when adopted into wider circulation or other languages/cultures.

No problem Sarahbumbarer - there is often too much weight put on concepts and terminology, and in any case, it is a useful to have such a discussion regardless of the 'correct' definition :)

I don't believe in 'what goes around comes around'. I think it's a load of rubbish, and like TheQueen I actually find it quite offensive, but not as much as its poisonous close bedfellow, 'everything happens for a reason'.

welll cockneydad if we're getting technical :)

the notion of "an eye for an eye" in the Hebrew scriptures was a way of limiting revenge thinking. Basically what was being said was that you were not allowed to do worse to someone than they had done to you. You couldn't demand someone die if they caused you to lose an eye!. IIRC (many years since I studied this stuff!) The actual reality of the law was that there was a monetary value given to the kinds of harm done - so losing an eye in a deliberate attack might get you XX shekels from the attacker - the law did not require you actually take their eye out.

all I can say is that I must have drowned kittens an a previous life then

I hate "everything happens for a reason" too - just dont believe it. Things happen and we have to deal with them!

as for "what goes around comes around" - I believe that our actions have consequences - what we choose to do, and how we choose to respond to situations will have knock on effects that we can't foresee. I do think patterns emerge in lives too - the person who continually lets people down ends up alone or with very few long standing friends (yes thinking of a real person here!) - but I don't think a tree falling on someone is due to them having done something "wrong" either in this life or another one.

Hi Catsrus - you are right - I was not following my own advice and misusing a term - bad choice of words :)

Acrually should have said 'I don't belive in Karma in the way it is banded around in popular culture, as in what goes around comes around'.

Particually in the 'my child ate a single grape in the supermarket what should I do? And everyone weighs in with 'oooooh you need to pay for another single one, or make a massive donation to charity or KARMA will come and get you'.

Like Karma is some kind of mythical bogyman.

Doing good will not prevent bad from happening, indeed, 'shit happens'.

Karma in a Buddist sense is obviously something completely different and not what I was alluding to.

I do not believe in external power. repeat until I believe my statement :)

I do have a slightly whimsical belief in "karma", in that I feel that the more positively I act, the better my life is. Taking short cuts, dropping people in it, refusing to help, acting only for my own interest etc all seems to limit my postivity and ultimately have an overall negative impact. Sometimes it's something small like spending time talking to a person that I feel pretty luke-warm about at a social event so they feel more comfortable. Quite often I feel as though certain people are taking advantage but as I am aware and feel in control of my generosity and input, I am okay with this and feel that I can pull back if I need to without too much trauma and I hope that my input will have a positive impact overall on my life.

I did some sailing years ago and the motto on board was "There are only pleasures on Poppy", even if it is cleaning out the blocked loo. I try to look at everything in life in that way - it's hard but it's a constant mental re-calibration to try to prevent negative thoughts taking over and casting a pall over my wider life.

I try to think of it as a positive approach to life (I do more, I get more) rathet than a negative one (he didn't help me so something bad will happen to him).

I'm usually a big sceptic on all things religious/mystical but I believe in karma (my own version of it) and I've seen it in action many times.

Before I believed in it I came to the conclusion that the whole concept of it would be very good for mankind in its consequences. Imagine if all people believed in karma. I have no doubt that the world would be a much kinder place. All actions have consequences and people need to be more mindful about the things they do. Having the incentive that it will all come and bite you on the bum one day is a powerful one.

Basically I believe in karma because I think it's a very good thing to believe in and I'm a more thoughtful and softer person (not all the time) because of it. The consequence of my belief is that I am happier and my life is better.

I think Karma is simply a way of thinking.
If you are pleasant, helpful, polite, kind and fair, you will feel good about yourself and therefore your life will run more smoothly. You will be more popular and respected by others, and will benefit from more opportunities coming your way....promotions, social status and so on....bringing confidence and a sense of wellbeing and achievemnt.

If you are a bitter, unpleasant, greedy, selfish, a bully or a liar, you may experience the opposite to the above. You may feel bad about yourself and be unhappy.

This only works if a person has a conscience really. Plenty of good people get dealt nothing but shit all their lives, and by the same token some right cunts always seem to land on their feet.

The idea that "what goes around comes around" is bullshit, plain and simple. No it doesn't. You can be total fuck all your days and never get your comeuppance.

I do try to practice/reflect on karma (believe in seems to be the wrong word for me), but more in a Buddhist sense than the Western 'what goes around, comes around'.

For me, I try to be mindful that the only karma I should be interested in is my own, and that it is none of my business to make judgements about whether other people deserve to have good or bad things happen to them.

I try to be mindful to show compassion to other people, even if they have not done the same to me. That doesn't mean that I am a doormat who lets people walk all over me, because of course the first person I owe compassion to is myself.

The aim is to work towards a state of mind that will accept misfortune and good fortune equally. If I am less upset about bad things happening, then I will not have as many bad things happen. Not because they will magically stop happening, but I will see them as less bad.

On the other hand, if I get upset and angry at every bad thing, then I will become increasingly upset as the bag things will gain an overwhelming importance. Likewise, if I revel in good fortune, feeling that I 'deserve' it, I will feel unhappy when I am no longer blessed with it.

I know that Buddhist karma also deals with events catching up with you in future lives, and am a bit more on the fence about whether I believe in that, except maybe to the extent that if one is reincarnated, then the lessons and wisdom you acquire in one life may follow you to the next.

That is my understanding of karma. I struggle to get it right most of the time but it is what I try to work towards.

There's a big difference here between 'do as you would be done by' and belief in a supernatural force that rewards goodness and punishes badness.

I can happily go with the first, in the way that FreeButtonBee describes it, as that's about taking personal responsibility for your behaviour and well-being and that alone will make you feel happier, whether or not anyone notices and repays your kindness, plus, some people probably will, so the sum total of kindness increases. Consciousless arses will still enjoy wonderful lives on their own terms though.

Thistledew - yes, that's how I try to think if it. It's a personal journey/philosophy.

And I like the concept that the first person I need to show compassion to is myself. That helps crystallise the bit of this approach to life that I have always struggled with internally - the times when I need to withdraw and consolidate. It feels selfish but actually, it's critical sometimes for my sense of self. I have little mini 'breakdowns' (I don't mean to belittle people who truly suffer mental health issues but it's hard to describe the despair that I feel on these periodic occasions without something stronger than just feeling 'low') every 6 months or so when I just completely wilt. It's always short-lived and I can sleep walk through life for the 10 days or so but it scuppers that positivity and compassion to others. It's hard not to feel guilty about stepping back but that focus on the need for compassion to all, including and principally myself, is a great tool.

Best example I can find, sorry it's from the DF site. I like the concept of just desserts, so have not referred to Bhuddist principles which are way above myhead.

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