to come down hard on DD for doing this?

[inatrance]

DD is 10 (but likes to think she is older) and I let her have a sleepover last night with her friend. While her friend was here she took a box of mince pies from the kitchen without asking (I found them when I went in to her room for something else), took an entire box of Roses and denied it when I asked her and was generally pushing me to get me to react, answering back and being disrespectful.

I'm not a total soft touch though I hate shouting and have had to crack down on her behaviour in the past, we have had issues with lying and even stealing on one occasion. (I rumbled her and took her back to the shop to be bollocked as well as punishing her myself). It has been generally better over the last year or so, since we moved house and I had my DS, who's now 8 mths. We moved for 6 months then moved back and over the last few months she has got gradually worse again. She tries to show off in front of her friends and is far cheekier as I don't tend to like to make a show in front of them. She has also broken two beds over the last year and lost an ipod and seems to have no respect for hers or others property either.

Her dad, my ex-h was abusive towards me and I left him when she was 5. She saw him assault me when she was 3 and she still remembers this. After I left he was convicted of assaulting me and we have had no direct dealings since as he was an arse every time I saw him, so his parents drop her off and pick her up when it's his weekend. She sees him every other wknd and goes for tea once a week.

He is a compulsive liar and has no respect for his parents, who bend over backwards to try to help him. He has never paid me a penny in maintenance for her but she thinks the sun shines out of his arse. He never tells her off (he doesn't need to) and whenever she goes to his or his parents she gets spoiled rotten.

Sorry for long ramble, didn't want to drip feed.

So, when her friend left I asked her again about the missing chocolates and she kept lying to me, then picked up her laptop from where it was in front of me and walked off while I was talking! So I grabbed the laptop, and took it off her and then she hit me on the arm.

I was furious, stormed upstairs and took her tv, 3ds etc and brought them downstairs. I didn't shout but I told her to stay in her bedroom and that I was going to calm down downstairs then we were going to have a serious chat. I've got a poorly baby atm as well, so the next thing was when I heard the front door slam. I went straight after her but she had gone and I couldn't leave him to go after her.

To cut a long story short, I then had a call from her GP's to say she had phoned her Dad and he was on his way to pick her up and they were going to take her back to their house. I spoke to her GD who told me that she had been cheeky to him over Xmas but that he had told her off too, but that they admitted she tended to get her own way a lot when she was with them. She seems to have little respect for her nan in particular, which I think it to do with how her Dad talks about her. They then brought her back after giving her tea. When she got back she was still defiant and had obviously had lots of attention from them and tbh was scarily unrepentant.

I was at first angry and shouted, but that didn't affect her at all and she shouted back, so then I told her she was grounded for a week, losing her privileges until I decide otherwise and that every time she answered back I would add on a day. I think then she knew I meant business so then I was really tough with her and was as hard faced as I could be. I was so upset that she could lash out like that and also that she put herself at risk by running off.

It seemed like it had gone in and she did as she was told when I told her to get ready for bed, but then I heard her singing to herself! Like she had not a care in the world. AIBU to be the biggest hard ass in the world now and over the coming weeks/months/years? I'm worried as she has respect for the men in her life, (her Dad, GD and my DH) but not the women, (me and her GM) and I'll be buggered if I'm letting her continue with THAT attitude.

I'm stuck with Bad Cop for the foreseeable aren't I? Shit I hate being Bad Cop. :(

tread carefully.

she is just doing what all girls at this age do - pushing the boundaries.

if you are TOO hard you will just drive her into the arms of those nice soft rellies who let her get her own way without hassle....

you have to strike a balance here.
Her singing to herself is not a sign that she is the devil incarnate....would you rather she be face down sobbing on the bed? i guess thats sort of the response you were hoping for....

you need to be firm but fair. the problem is she has the "good cop" to run to if you are "bad cop"....

i would speak to your ex. and his parents. you need to try to all work together on this one instead of letting her play you off against each other - and lets face it - she wil lbecause thats what teens are programmed to do!

btw....i wouldnt have made such an issue out of some chocolates going missing really.

why do you think she took them and then lied?

my dd takes stuff from the kitchen all the time, but she tells me. i dont get het up over it. i guess thats because she tells me. and i guess she tells me cos i dont get het up....

dont make mountains out of molehills....the old saying 'choose your battles' is true here....

she is 10. you will have more to come...
really
roses going over xmas with a friend isnt that bad
hitting you is
disrespecting you is
storming out is
but it was over a box of roses! you need to take a step back, find a bit of perspective, give her a bit of leeway so molehills dont become mountains.

ive got one at 14 (dd) and one at 20 (ds)....i feel your pain!

Hi, OP. You know, this kind of behaviour is pretty common at this kind of age, irrespective of 'troubled' background.

You can get into a stressful battle with your DD, or you can wheel out some love and affection and attention. She loves you, and she needs you, and it might not seem like it but she wants you to love her, very much. Get that bit right and you can talk to her about anything, including how she behaves towards you and what the acceptable rules are at home (regardless of what they might be at dad's and grandparents' houses).

I think you may have gone a bit OTT on the confiscation and grounding front. You don't always have to 'follow through' in my view with an older child. As long as you make it's clear that it's your decision to compromise in exchange for some calm behaviour, you retain control but also get some sanity back.

Well, that's just my view! I may of course be off the wall ...

Thanks for your reply Vicarina, that's what I'm afraid of, esp after them seeming to make a fuss of her. I told them that we need to be united with regards to respect etc but I think they are scared of being tough with her as she is the only GC.

I was vile from about 12 IIRC, my mum reckons this is my karma!

X-post there, thank you for replies, I know it was just a box of chocs, with it being Xmas we've all had lots and I didn't mind her having a few. I'm not so bothered about that, more the lying and lack of respect. I am normally very loving and understanding of the difficulties she's gone through. I just feel that without respect Im doomed!

Also, she usually goes there for tea tomorrow, I'm considering not letting her go as part of the grounding, or would that make it worse?

(I've never stopped her going before btw)

I wouldn't stop her going.

I'd tell her I love her, to have a nice time, and just say that we'll have a nice chat about things when we're both a bit happier.

Blimey, I'm quite amazed at the response that you shouldn't be so hard on her or she will run off to people who give in to her every whim . Stick to your guns, she was a little witchy poo, don't let her go to her Gp's and be indulged. If they are not going to support you then they can bugger off.

If children are pushing boundaries it's sensible to push back, not just give in at a bit of petulance/crying. At that age they already know that you love them, that should have been established yonks ago, you really do need to follow through.

I was a little twat as a teenager

We had a similar incident over here at Xmas but we are on the other side where neice called GP after getting hit by her mother in the face

We had to go and get her and take her to GP house to stay with her dad

Living
I think that many are advising caution because doing the opposite can actually make the child even more determined to push back. And those who are giving advice, are posters with teenagers and adult children.

I think that being too hard can be self-defeating because she will see her ideas confirmed - Mum is such a bitch, how can she do this to me, who does she think she is, she does not have a clue how I feel, the only one who does is dad, he lets me do what I want...

By doing something unexpected, you will make her think.

Not lifting her grounding, but spend a bit of time with her doing things that she likes to do. She has had a lot of upheaval in her life, particularly in the past year - moved twice, and a baby brother.

Can you get someone to take your DS for the day and do something that she really likes?

Living, it's called choosing your battles. You can't kick off about everything, or you have nothing left to fight the big stuff.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to be angry about the Roses and mince pies.

Hitting and being disrespectful needs dealing with. But you need to sit down and consider what you are going to use as an effective punishment. One that does not involve her grandparents or father. Mme Lindor is right, she's had a lot going on in the last year, there's bound to be a reaction to that.

It sounds like she has a very complicated life and I'm not surprised she's acting up. IME kids absolutely crave boundaries because they provide them with stability and predictability. Your DD is moving between a caring, kind home with you where there is fair discipline to a home where she has no boundaries and she sees her dad treat her beloved grandmother like shit. That's enough to make a grown adult go off the rails never mind a ten year old. Plus she has a new sibling, so her one stable rock, you, has to be (rightly) shared. Children rarely if ever engage in this sort of behaviour just to be "naughty" as that's just mad - no one gets pleasure out of seeing their favourite person in the world being cross and upset. It usually happens when a child is unsure of themselves, perhaps angry, and is looking for a response. I think you might need to have a long talk with her.

I find myself agreeing with Mme's post a lot on MN and I am doing it again now.

Pick your battles, all that seem an awful lot for some missing mince pies and some chocs. She took some food she didn't STEAL it.

I agree with sarah - I wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow tbh, they probably wanted a midnight feast, I can remember doing the same.

Kids are allowed to be 'naughty' now and again - that's a perk of being a kid

All kids push boundaries- but I would also be annoyed about the food being taken.
I dont allow any food or drinks upstairs and never have done

While its "only a few chocolates" I know of someones child who also snuck chocolates into a bedroom for a midnight feast- and the friend had an allergy to peaniuts and weny into anaphalactic shock.

It doesn't have to be screaming and shouting and over reacting, I'm sure you'll have had enough of that.

Your reaction was understandable but awful, and based upon outrage (I've done it too) rather than based upon setting boundaries and having a clear understandding of what the consequences will be for stepping over them. You have to look at your actions, she is enraged by YOU. For something rather minor you've taken away her laptop, TV, DVD's... she's been cheeky. She stormed off. She wanted to get away, partly because she'd done something wrong and didn't want the punishment, partly because you were both in a Mexican Standoff situation.

Her behaviour sliding back to badness is probably a lot to do with moving, plus her baby brother getting lots of love and attention. She's beginning to make the shift into hormone hell, and is probably struggling.

Stay calm. She's full of rage. If you don't stay calm you will become the outlet for her rage. My mum was.

By the way, my mother, my Gran and I were always angry at each other, always in the wrong (I was disrespectful, my mum was unreasonable and irrational) yet I never rowed with my dad... not because he was 'better', not because I was closer to him, but because he dealt with things calmly, quietly and respected ME. Had my dad dealt with the situation you describe, and were I your dd, he'd have closed the door saying 'we'll speak later', and I'd know that 'later' would mean we'd discuss my behaviour and I'd get to choose a punishment from a list of things I hate. Calmly and without fuss.

Don't turn this into something bigger than it is. She doesn't disrespect women she IS a young woman who's fucked off with the way she interacts with the other women in her family.

Yes, good point, Aldi.

Think about appropriate sanctions. Ones that have a connection to the actual "crime".

Eating food that she should not have - maybe she has to bake you some cakes to replace the mince pies? Or hand over some of her sweets?

I can also highly recommend the How To Talk So Kids Will Listen book, as it explains how to deal with situations like this without exploding.

aldi makes a good point. One thing I have learnt to do with ds ( a gobby little so and so) is to tell him calmly I am cross and we'll have a chat about it later. This works on 2 levels, the first being he has a bit of time to think about his actions and get a bit worried about exactly what punishment he will have. And secondly, I gives me a chance to calm down and make sure the punishment really does fit the crime.

Bloody hard this parenting lark!

Also agree with MmeLindor. She took some food, you over reacted, and things escalated from there. Respect is mutual, from your DDs point of view you a) wouldn't allow her to choose some food to share with her guest b) snatched her laptop from her...then she behaved badly in response.

I see that it's difficult with the GPs and ex, but I also see that children and teens are more than capable of dealing with different rules in different places, and that doesn't make them behave badly. I don't see that it's the GPs place to discipline your DD, if they see her once a twice a week their role is to be a little indulgent, although it should be made clear that if she is rude to either of them she will be sent/taken home. I wouldn't stop her visiting them tomorrow, but I would try hard to keep communication open between you and ask them to let you know if she is badly behaved there.

Could you make a regular time to do something nice/fun with DD while leaving DS with your DH ? Maybe a weekend morning once a fortnight, or an evening a week? Let her choose what she wants to do with you and make that her time. I find my DC talk more about things that are worrying them when we're baking a cake or I'm doing DDs nails than if I sit down and say 'let's have a chat'. It's easy to overlook that she still needs you and loves you when she's being a cowbag...and this is only going to increase over the next few years.

"then I heard her singing to herself"

That sounds like self-comforting, not not caring about what has happened.

Do you think it's a good idea for her to see he father. She remembers him attacking you, she will be scared of him at some level.

Thanks for the advice, DD has gone to her Nan's tonight though I get the feeling I won't be backed up there. I'm still grounding her, but will have a chat with her when she gets in. Just really feel like I need to regain the authority or I am setting myself up for an even harder few years...

Hi

You definitely need the authority, but you also need to find a way to be her loving mum.

Have you ever managed to get a proper chat with her about rules and their reasons?
She needs to understand why you must trust her, in the same way that she can trust you.
She needs to understand what bad things can happen if she runs away.
And so on.

This conversation needs to be done in a loving and trusting way, not in anger, but assertively.
You need to give her the opportunity to apologise and for you two to be ok again.
If necessary, you can also apologise to her for over reacting/shouting, etc.

I'm still worried that she has to spend time on her own with a man who assaulted you. Abusers attack the vulnerable - children are especially at risk.

Thunder, thanks for your concern, I hate him, he was a twat to me, but he has never been like that with her. She seems to be the only female in the world that he treats decently, for now at least. If I had even the faintest whiff of him being even mildly abrasive with her I'd limit contact. He knows I won't take any shit off him anymore, especially with regards to her.

As it stands though, he is her Dad and she loves him. And despite him bring an arse he isn't a bad Dad.

YANBU OP.