to get slightly annoyed when people refer to the nhs as free?

[rootietootie]

Its not bloody free, well maybe at point of service, but everyone who works pays for it.

I apologise, I was under the belief that the NHS was funded directly through taxation and NI. EDLP, can you expand a bit more as to where other funding comes from.

rootie &dreaming

Er... but almost all government revenues come from taxes. Many different kinds of taxes, sure, but still taxes.

The NHS is funded with government revenues, and those revenues come mostly from taxes. Or am I being thick

YANBU in so far as people use the idea that the NHS is 'free' to shut down debate. If you start a thread on here complaining about a particular shit experience you have had, people will tell you to put up and shut because it's 'free'.

It isn't, and quite frankly (as a Brit who has lived many years abroad) one of the things I like least about British culture is a tendency to knuckle down in the face of mediocrity and not complain because it's 'good enough'.

Well, it isn't. Lots of people don't get access to the care they need: the other day on a thread about PIP implants, a poster was saying that her potentially recurrent cancer is supposed clinically to require 5 yrs' worth of follow up check, but the NHS will only pay for 2 due to funding squeezes. This is not acceptable. I think as citizens and taxpayers we should all be a lot more vocal in talking about what is wrong and right with the NHS and how it can be fixed, because the current model is unsustainable and soon we will lose the little that is left of it.

I have never worked in the NHS but as a patient I can immediately see at my local hospital multiple ways in which they could be more efficient. I mean, they are so obvious - recently I had an appointment with a consultant just to check if I was in pain or not. That could've been done by a nurse over the phone. There are many other examples. Personally I think the services I have come into contact with at least could be run much more efficiently and thereby free up time/ money for really ill patients.

That is one example of the conversation we should all be having - not 'it's free, and most people don't die, and it's also better than the US, so pack it in'. It won't be better than the States for much longer with Cleggeron in charge.

nhs care is free at the point of delivery, so if you have never paid taxes or ni so then it is free to you. It is not a free service to run nor deliver, as it has overheads and so funded by government revenure. If you have paid taxes and NI it is still free at delivery but obviously you have paid into it.

Sinister, most Americans DO have insurance, so you would not have had a hefty bill. And hospitals are used to writing off huge sums that they know they will never collect.

The American system is very flawed but it's not nearly so bad as people here seem to think it is.

i get a similar irk when people refer to social housing as free

or the repairs that tenants get as being free

nothing is free.

OP is entitled to an opinion there is no need to get your collective breeks in a twist!

I get annoyed sometimes when I hear about the free NHS as I think it devalues the service. It is free at the point of service but we pay for it in our taxes. Unfortunately a lot of that money seems to disappear in a black hole that would bankrupt it if run as a business. I don't think anyone has the answer or solution to how to run it efficiently without coming across those who defend it no matter what.

It's free in the same way that education is free, roads are free, libraries are free. In the way that food and petrol aren't. IE we only pay for the food and petrol we use, we pay for education and health care regardless so they are available when and if we need them.

As far as I'm concerned it is free. And I am also prepared to make some allowances as I see the NHS as a community resource - the relationship between the patient and the NHS isn't the same as that with any other organisation where money changes hands.

Ormm - quite - it's a community resource and we are the community so rather than just saying it's fantastic, we should take ownership of it, take responsibility for it. We pay for it, it's ours. Just like people rallying round to save community libraries or get involved with PTA etc.

I think most people drastically over estimate the value of their contributions. I'm a higher rate tax payer- years of my contributions might not come close to funding the prem baby I give birth to in highly medicalised circumstances, or treating me after a serious car crash - all incidences repeated hundreds of times every day in this country.

People also forget they use something like 80% of their healthcare expense in the last 5 years of their life- a time when in all likelyhood they are not paying tax. How on earth do OAPs afford insurance premuims? They mustve astronomical by the time youre 85.

I use private, I am slim and in great condition, much better service, NHS is council health

You won't be when you're 80 delta

The NHS has saved my life twice and my newborn son's. I was not asked for my credit card before I was even allowed in the waiting room, like when I was in the US. For that I am very grateful, and I will fight to preserve our NHS.

So was I delta until I hit 50! Since 50 I have developed multiple illnesses, not caused by my lifestyle, unless you count the stress of having a disabled DH and DS. I now have to take around 21 tablets per day and have three different consultants. Imagine having to fund that through insurance!

Also, how as a family would we fund my terrible ill health, plus DH's long list of illnesses and disabilities, plus DS's equally long list?

None of these have been caused by a poor lifestyle, but through bad luck.

Seeing as the NHS is available to everyone, regardless of social status, income, race, sex etc., and without charge, I think it's safe to say that it IS free. It's obviously not free to run but is funded through tax and NI contributions, which are compulsory.
It also frequently repairs botched surgery done in private clinics, and not just the cosmetic variety. If your private surgeon messes you up, delta, are you really going to wait around for your complaint to be reviewed by the clinic and possibly a legal case to go through court before your surgery is corrected? Or are you going to do like every other private patient does, and rely on the NHS to put it right?
Amazing how many private people still think of the NHS as their safety net.

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say delta

Like Gurl says, you have no idea what is round the corner, you could end up severely disabled tomorrow. And believe me, you'd soon be grateful to the NHS.

The NHS have messed me around no end but have also saved my life and kept me going hundreds of times. When I see how friends in the states don't cope with huge insurance payments and their health consequently deteriorates I am still grateful for the NHS, despite it not being perfect.

It's free at point of service.

Less of a mouthful to say its free.

don't see the problem myself. I tend to say "it's free" most often when I am saying how amazing treatment has been for dcs or myself, how great my gps are for example, in a "I can't believe I don't now have to wait for a bill and prioritise monthly bills against ailments and work out whether can afford to be ill this month" kind of way.

Sinister that's bizarre. The whole calling before holding the baby thing, I mean. I've lived in America for my entire life and I've never heard of such a thing.

Agreed, Yank. Total bollocks and hyperbole.

well speaking as someone living in a country where you pay for healthcare - GP visits £30 a pop, full cost of prescriptions (around £25 for the most basic) AS WELL as paying high tax, the NHS is "free" at the point of access (of course funded in the main by taxpayers). Believe me, it looks relatively good from where i'm sitting!

delta - if you need emergency surgery, say you're in a car crash, it will be NHS staff who would piece you together. what a patronising thing to say NHS is a "council service". are you never going to get ill - cancer, heart disease, dodgy joints, the diseases of age? Like you, I am slim and healthy but that doesn't make me immune to what may be round the next corner! Nor to the inevitable decline of age..