To ask for help here, am losing my mind

[Thisisfuckingawful]

I cannot go on like this anymore, I am going insane.

I have not had more than 3 hours of broken sleep a night for 3 months. DD2 7mo is hyperactive. She is awake for hours every night and is manic, arms and legs flailing. If we pick her up she smiles, chatters, grabs our face. If we leave her she cries. She wants to play all night.

If we cosleep she grabs at my face and clothes for hours. If I try to feed her she bites me. She lies in her cot and shakes her head frantically from side to side, like she is trying to keep herself awake. Tonight the head shaking was so bad I thought she was going mad. She keeps this up for hours at a time, she rarely sleeps for more than an hour.

It is taking it's toll on the whole family. I am a different person. I'm so angry all the time, I swear at DH and we argue constantly. My marriage is falling apart. Dd1 is 3yo and her behaviour has got so much worse because i'm so miserable. I don't know what to do. I've just made dh sleep on the sofa and dd2 is playing with a toy on the bed.

Please please help

hi op Just wanted to come back and say hang in there, although you have not read all the posts we have all been saying similar things. You have taken on board the most important- You and your DH need to get some rest so you can tackle the issue fresh with renewed energy.

One last thing...before I started the Gradual Retreat/CC method (I used the Millpond Sleep Clinic book) I rested up, then I started the sleep training on a Thursday night...that way my DH and I had the weekend to do it together and we did not have the pressure of DH being shattered for work mid week.

If you can then please make play dates/ ask for friends to take your toddler off for the day Sat/Sun so you can catch up on more sleep. If I were your friend I would be very happy to do this in RL. Just ask, friends and family are often desperate to help.

Good Luck, it will get better x

This is a bit of an old wives tale but my dad used to do it if we didn't sleep for weeks on end. seemed to work.

He would let us sleep on his bare chest while he sat/slept in a chair. Getting us to sit there quietly for a while was the tough bit not sure how he managed it. Maybe your DH can try?

Another adult needs to be around to watch over them...

But i do wonder if she isn't sleeping because she somehow senses you are also overtired?

You must be at the end of your tether. good luck!

omama Thanks, yes I'm sure she is overtired. We have been working on the naps recently but christmas has thrown us. She managed to have 3 hours today in 2 naps, so hoping she is starting to catch up.

She doesn't have any milk during the night because she won't. She is too distracted, she won't stay in any feeding positions, twists her head around, pushes away. I have tried everything, and seen HV, GP and a very good lactation consultant. For a few days she had no milk at all, so when she started feeding at night I was actually relieved. And I am really ok with a few night feeds, its the waking for hours on end with no purpose that has finished me off :(

She eats LOADS of food, huge portions - ikea bowls full of pasta, she can even swallow red meat, mushrooms. She eats jacket potatoes, omlettes, loads of fruit and veg. Big chunks of cheese, yoghurt. I'm really happy with her food intake, just not with her milk intake. 3 or 4 breastfeeds a day is average at this age I think? So not excessive.

I have accepted that I will feed her at night for at least another few months, but a lot of the times she wakes she doesn't want milk. I offer but she refuses. She wakes 6 or 7 times a night (or less if she is awake for hours at a time) and only has milk at 2 or 3 of those. The rest she is just awake and hyper.

confuzzled wow that sounds horrendous. How did you get through years of broken sleep? I'm in awe, I am completely broken after 3 months.

I'm pretty sure DD2 doesn't have reflux. DD1 had severe reflux and she also had silent reflux so was in pain. DD2 never seems in pain (other than being a pain in the arse!!). I'm planning another trip to the docs though so will ask

RVF400 glad to hear the headshaking is more common than I realised, it was really beginning to worry me. I'm not going to try CC, but going through this I can really understand why people do it. Sleep deprivation is horrific.

I've started a sleep diary today. It's interesting that I thought she was having enough sleep at night as she is often in bed for 13-14hours. But last night was better than most and it total I think she only had 10 hours actual sleep.

Anti D's, rum and some fabulous friends got us through it, but it was hard, im sure some of my old MN posts will show you. My dd never acted like she was in pain, she just woke up allot, wanted company and fed all through the night. You can buy infant gaviscon over the counter. If it was going to make a difference you'd notice on the first night. I know giving meds to your baby is pretty unwanted but it might be worth a try. It may be what's causing the wakefulness and then making her overtired so making the sleep problems worse.

I really feel for you, I can't imagine going back to those days. Ds has the occasional bad night and gets up most mornings between 5 and 6, but totally manageable. Dealing with 2 kids when your exhausted must be dreadful.

thisis just to give you my support, DD was exactly like this, did the head shaking thing too, so much so that she permanently had a knot of hair right in the middle of her head. She also would only feed at night (all night it seemed), regardless of what I tried in the day. I was 'lucky' in that she's my first so I had the time to give/nap when I needed to and DH was away for months so he didn't have the stress. I honestly thought I was going to die of exhaustion at times, my family are no where near so it was just me, with no break. It was utterly soul-destroying at the time and sadly I didn't enjoy her first year at all. I resorted to cc at 11 months and it took her 2 weeks to get the hint but she was sleeping pretty reliably by the time DS came along at 20 months. She's now 3.1 and unless her eczema's playing up she sleeps like a dream. It does get better, it will get better but you have my sympathies cos I completely understand how utterly, utterly draining it is. She is still very demanding (won't play on her own for longer than 5ish mins/needs face time and interaction all the time) but then I reckon most 3 year olds probably are!

naturalbaby thanks for posting the routine. I really don't think I could stick to such a strict schedule but can certainly gain a few ideas about timings. I had kind of worked out from her that she needs 12 hours overnight and then 3 hours during the day.

naturalbaby what do you do if you need to go out for the day? or if there is a baby group on when it's naptime?. I have been trying to get DD2 to nap more and I feel like I need to stay home all the time. DD1 is starting to go mad with boredom. I've been doing lots of craft-type things at home with her but I don't feel like I even have time to take her to the park :(

DD2 won't sleep in a buggy/ sling (or sometimes she will catnap) and I feel like I can't risk her not having a long nap for even 1 day at the moment :(

Dingdong thanks, I will try to intoduce times in the night between which I won't feed her (when I've sorted a routine that is). I remember doing that with DD1, but she was having loads during the day so I wasn't worried about nutrition.

TruthSweet Thanks for the link. I did like the Duracell Bunny article, and I'd be interested to know what they thought about tongue tie. How does it work? It says on the website that emails are free, so how do they make money? Or do you need to pay for a full consultation then email? I am in the catchment area but am a little nervous about finances. I do have a lot of bfeeding support, including a certified lactation consultant. But I do have this niggle about the tongue tie.....

Hi Thisis

I was where you are when DD was 8 months old. She was still waking every two hours for a feed. I really felt like I was losing my mind and one night I just couldn't take it anymore, I put her down in her cot, left the room and SCREAMED. Sleep dep turns you into a different person.

My DD wasn't napping either during the day.

Anyway I was (and still am) anti CC (for me, not ctiticising others), but everyone I spoke to said it was the only way. I did it in the end. It took two nights and she only cried for up to 20 mins before falling asleep. I regretted it afterwards and felt so guilty, especially when I found out about the No Cry book and read what it's like from the baby's POV.

Even though I regret leaving my baby to cry, I think it had to be done because I felt like I was at the point of no return.

She's still not a great sleeper at 2yo, but she just comes into our bed now.

I really hope you manage to find a solution. Even if you can just sleep for one night with minimal interruption using some of the suggestions, I'm sure it will make a difference.

Good luck.

I know you didn't ask me but I was tied to DD's nap times like a fricker. She wouldn't sleep in the buggy or the sling after 4 months and hated the car. I would cut things short just to get back to get her down for her nap.
Can you start some stricter nap times when your eldest goes to nursery? try and work some times in around drop off/pick up?

chulita thanks for the support :) I'm amazed you managed another DC, if I had had DD2 first I think she would have been an only child :)

Thanks to everyone else in case I've missed anyone. I really do appreciate the support, it has helped me to get some focus rather than wanting to curl up and cry all day.

It's my turn to sleep tonight. DH is on duty. I am nervous and so is he. I have only left enough milk for one feed, but if I feed her before I go to bed in theory that should be enough. I need to remind myself that I am not abandoning her, I feel a bit shit about it, but I know it needs to be done. And I will be a better mum to both my children if I get a bit of kip. Wish me luck :)

Hi,

Not sure whether this applies to you but thought I'd share an experience my friend has had with her DS. He went from sleeping really well to not hardly sleeping at all and someone recommended to her that she should cut out bananas at tea which she did and made a bit of difference and then when she cut it out completely he went back to being a great sleeper, some sort of issue with digestion I suppose but she swears by it now!!!

It will pass, it just doesn't seem like it at the moment!

Cross post Chulita!

DD will be in childcare for 3 days/ week. Not sure how a routine will work for the other 4 days? Weekends used to be family time, but we may have to do separate things for a while :(

sparkle interesting, DD2 eats lots of bananas.....will try a banana free day tomorrow!

Definately off to bed now!

I'm glad you're feeling more supported and are at least some way to sorting out a sleep routine for you & DH!

Look, don't shoot me but I think you may be worrying too much about milk. Now she's eating, have you tried not giving her any milk at all for several days? Some children stop producing lactase very young and, although yours is still too young for full weaning in the average run of things, she sounds very fast in her feeding development. So I was wondering if part of the problem might actually be lactose intolerance? Could be worth a try if you're willing, anyway. Hope this stage passes quickly for you all :)

DH just said that since DD was that awful, subsequent children would struggle to be worse (he was right btw, so far...we'll see what DC3 brings in a few weeks)
I am really grateful that she was our first, we go out every day now or she goes crazy in the house but DS just falls asleep in the buggy. I still can't believe it when he does!
Good night and good luck! (and it will get better)

Thisis - as far as I know they only charge for visits in person. Charlotte is a ABM bfing counsellor by training so does a lot of voluntary work too. If you are on FB you can go on her page and ask her (Analytical Armadillo) and that definitely won't cost anything. I don't really know much about the money end of things as I just follow the blog/fb as am in the SE (and am training with the ABM too).

H
Good luck op.

Definitely get her ears checked. I hope you find soething that works soon. Sleep deprivation is awful

I have been where you are,it is shite.

My DD who is now 3 was exactly like your DD,we kept telling people she never slept etc,everyone replied with " oh yes baby's are exhausting!"

they Had No Fucking Idea.

I now know this as DS is a 'normal' baby,and it seems so easy

your post has brought back so many memory's.

I wasn't going to post as I wasn't sure I could add anything, truthsweet linked to the things I would have linked to,
but then I remembered,we bought a baby swing,with a side rocking motion,we got it out of desperation,it was a god send.

She actually slept in it, ALL NIGHT LONG (well 6 hours)
on the day it arrived we put it on,fastest swing,white noise music,all night,we daren't turn it off!
But she slept,we got some rest.

'twas worth every penny.

Good luck.

Oh,and the mantra

This Too Shall Pass.

And it will.

I've been where you are and it did pass. Sleep deprivation is absolutely horrible the broken sleep no doubt responsible for you feeling so wretched, you have my absolute sympathy. I used to feel deranged - insane, I'd hallucinate and be miserable.

I couldn't relate to anyone "enjoying" their baby - it was just a relentless ordeal.

No solutions here - how you work your way out depends on the babe, trust your judgement to some extent even when you feel like it must be out of kilter. Your gut feel is probably the best guide. xxx

Good luck tonight, just off to bed and wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hoping you have a better night

Thisis,
I feel your pain. DD was a dreadful sleeper, DS is loads better but I remember being so tired it was beyond comprehension.
DS is coming 8 mo and DD 2.9.
DS does the head shaking thing when exhausted too.
Just to let you see the routine which works for us
DS up between 6.15 and 7.00, bf and dressed
Dd up c 7/7.30 dressed
Breakfast for both at c 7.45
Ds put in room after no more than 2 hours from wake - only thing I am strict on
He sleeps between 1.5 and 2 hours
Dd and I tidy up and play
Outing as soon as he wakes - tends to be 10.30
Tend to bring lunch
Home for sleep between 1 and 2 and both children to bed
They wake whenever

After this its basically just stay home, bath, dinner, playing stories sometimes a third nap if ds is really wrecked and he has bottle and bed at 7 ish, she gets one on one and bed at 8 ish.

I find if I'm strict with the morning to get an outing then the afternoon at home is easier and more flexible.

I did cc with ds and it took a day - I was spending hours patting him and I felt the cost to dd of this was too high. I ended up having to abandon her in front of the tv whilst I worked with him. He still compains for a minute or 2 when he goes in his cot but it was right for him - I know it wouldn't have worked with her.

Sorry this is so long but I find it workable on routine and thought it might help.