'They need to learn'!!

[difficulttimes]

I have heard this alot from different generations etc and I can't quite decide If I agree, The 'don't move anything brakeable, they have to learn!' idea about toddlers.

I was never raised with this ethos, my mum never had ornaments out, my grandma hid all hers and kid proofed her house, I suppose I've been raised with the expectation that its the adults responsibility to make sure the house is toddler proof.
However, since I had my son I've increasingly come across this view, and It doesn't sit right with me. But If I dont agree I feel like i'm being lazy.

AIBU to not follow this line of thought???

I've just realised why I don't like it. It's because it often seems to be used to justify guilt over a (usually) too harsh punishment or teaching "method", like leaving tiny babies to cry it out. (Have never heard anyone using it for properly researched, end-of-tether controlled crying, before I get shouted at)

I never used socket covers after seeing that site, but my HV was really agitated about it! She even wrote it down in my file

just read back - aldiwhore, you have no fireguard?? I have always had an open fire and always had a fireguard, before DS (and even DH) were on the scene - it's saved my carpets from many a burn. I also have a cheapo rug in front of the fire for any cinders/sparks that do make it past the guard, and it has several holes in it. My fireguard is to protect the house from the fire, not the child!

Of course they 'need to learn' - but that means that we need to teach them! It's just one of those phrases that gets on my nerves too....

I had a mahoosive fireguard (think fence!) in our last house, but that was because our stove was up on brickwork which was incredibly sharp and would have led to a tragedy if DS head had landed on it. He never 'saw' the fireguard really because it was just part of the furniture, but every time another toddler came over they made a beeline for it and tried to pull themself up on it, climb over it, etc.

I had a lock for under the sink (bleach etc) and stairgates, but tbh that was it. Anything precious was up high, and I let my mum do a lot of 'don't touch' teaching because her house is ornament city!

DS has always had a favourite toy and I found that the best way to teach about not touching things, because I usually put it away when other children visited and made a point of explaining why, then linking that to other people's precious things.

There is a middle ground between though between mini soft-play centre and having open fires, toxic chemicals, knives, bowls of glass beads, precious ornaments etc within toddler reach.

Just because you make things safer doesn't mean that you never say "don't touch" and children never learn how to behave.

Obviously you can't toddler proof a whole house (and even if you could I am sure that some child somewhere would find some inventive way to injure themselves on foam padding!), but its about making a compromise whereby you can be fairly confident that if you turn you back for a couple of minutes (to grab the phone, open the door, put on the washing whatever) your toddler will still be largely inthe same state that you left them in with all limbs intact. You can't watch a child 24 hours a day (at least I can't )

I'd definitely put anything precious or hazardously breakable well out o the way.

I really couldn't put a toddler through the stress of learning the detail of learning what to touch and what not to touch - there's enough to deal with without adding to it! And a toddler won't know the difference between expensive honeymoon memento and an ironic cheap and tacky item you/host couldn't really care less about, and why there's such a different reaction to approaching them.

In the olden days, people had playpens. If you think of them as a space where the child can do as s/he pleases with only safe items placed inside, then they become havens from the adult world of forbidden objects and the need to repress urges to touch.

I'm always a bag of nerves whenever we visit MIL's house. She has loads of ornaments everywhere, inc on low shelves. Whilst DD was always able to resist, DS seems to make it his personal mission to try to grab as many as he can before anyone notices . She doesn't seem to want to move any of them out of his reach, so perhaps she won't mind if one gets broken one day .

I believe when it comes to life they definitely need to learn and take responsibility for themselves as soon as they can. Our house has never been childproofed - we only ever had one stairgate in our townhouse and and no socket covers or the like. DS1 has not had an accident that has been self inflicted yet and DS2 has just never had an accident.

When it comes to breakables I expect DS1 (2 1/2) to be careful when he touches or looks at things - he is allowed to touch things because he needs to learn to be careful. The only thing he is not allowed to touch is my clarinet. DS2 being only a year is not allowed to touch anything yet and I am not sure he ever will - while DS1 was always really careful when handling things DS2 is just a bit of a destructable baby (he is 13 months).

Personally, I think too many people worry about their possessions and safety of their children and I am not sure it does them any good at all. My dad was a complete safety freak and my mum was always so proud of her possessions - in the end it has turned me into a person that I am nut sure I entirely like.

If you move everything, how do your toddlers get on in "the real world" where folks do not ?? It is not anyone else's responsibility to kid proof their house for your kids - it is your responsibility to make sure they know how to behave everywhere.

So my view is that you act at home like you do out - don't move everything, there are dangers everywhere - best to meet them for the first time at home and be taught how to avoid or overcome them in a relaxed home setting....

p.s.I have girls! :o

My lovely neighbour, in her 80s, is of the "they need to learn" school of thought. Unfortunately DS, 10 months at the time, was more than willing to engage in the learning process.

She has a tallboy (right word?) in her hall, with 30 drawers in total in two columns of 15. DS amused himself by pulling all the drawers out (she was fine with this, encouraged him along). Only for me to discover as we were leaving that it was in fact handmade, and depsite the fact that all the drawers looked the same size they were all in fact different and fitted in specific holes. So i spent the next sodding hour grinning through gritted teeth trying to fit 30 sodding drawers into 30 sodding sodding holes, where the only differences were invisible to the naked eye.

This is why we child proof

ByTheWay: when not in a "safe" environment, they coped admirably because I was supervising them, teaching and explaining.

They learned about knocks, spills and yes breakages through play, not through destroying (through ignorance or incomplete training) items in our or anyone else's house.

I never saw it as "either/or", but do attach importance to a toddler having spaces where they do not have to make the effort to keep following instructions and can instead justrelax.

I have twin 3 year old boys. One has autism.
I have toned down my childproofing somewhat.

The utility room is a no go area (gate)
They have full run of the kitchen/diner except for food cupboards and sharp knife drawer. Their bedroom, hallway, lounge and the garden is all free space. Learnt do't touch for the tv and equipment. Sort of!

My mum's is great as they semi-chilproofed it from day one and important stuff is up high. MIL's loads of irreplaceable stuff everywhere so I have eyes like a hawk in there and short visits. Or stay in the garden wich is big and grassy with great mud puddles yipeee.

I find more friends with children visit us now as it is a relaxing place for all and safe for the little ones.

I think they do need to learn. The best way for children to learn is through doing and then seeing what happens.

Why else would they bother doing science experiments at school, or have a learn through play ethos throughout early years education.

If someone else wants to provide that learning experience with their favourite china ornaments, then so be it.

I have plenty of things to say "no" to DD about without adding ornaments that look just like toys to the mix. She is beginning to climb and stand on chairs and is quite keen on sockets. Our kitchen cupboards have child locks as the floor is very hard and our crockery wouldn't enjoy being part of the learning experience. Nor would DD enjoy cutting herself on the shards of ceramic that would have spread across the whole kitchen.

I hear that alot.

my mum never moved anything when i was growing up and i never did when mine was growing up apart from the cleaning stuff, and tablets put on high shelfs its commen sense really and never leave them alone when i used to have to do somthing i made sure mine was strapped inpram.

We viewed a house when I was pregnant and had a toddler. At the back was an unfenced sheer drop into a ravine I kid you not. The house was very steep and built into the hill side, there were lots of other sheer drops involved. The horrid old woman estate agent used the "the children will just have to learn" line over and over again which DH and I thought quite funny one slip down that ravine would be the end of anyone so any resultant "lesson" would be pretty pointless.

Trills. I love you.

OP, my MIL is like this and I find it really annoying. Last time we were there she got cross with my DH for moving some precious items to a high shelf and kept saying we need to teach our DS to understand the word no. DS is only just 2 and still at the stage where you have to invest a bit of time in it, repeatedly saying no or removing him from the object - DH just wanted to avoid the risk of breaking these items. The reason it annoys me so much is the sub text that I don't discipline my children properly and she would be doing it so much better. Arghh!!

Sorry. Rant over.

well i am not a fan of ornaments or nick nacks so that has never been an issue, we have books and dvds, cds etc they could pull out and we always just said/say no and move them away ditto when dd who is 12mths tries to press the buttons on the dvd/wii, virgin media box. i dont have cupboard locks, knives are in a high place as are poisonous stuff, cleaning chemicals etc. i cant toddler proof as i have older children 12, 9, almost 7 and 3 yrs so if dd start playing wiht lego the boys have left around i let her, if she puts it in her mouth i say 'not in your mouth' equally the boys have learnt if they have a precious lego model or toy they dont want dd to slobber on/break then they can put it away in their bedrooms to keep it safe.

we do have stairgates, but they are rarely used, if i am upstairs having a shower i shut the on at the top so dd can crawl around ec but generally they are open and i have taught them all to climb up carefully and to slide down backwards, feet first on their tummy iyswim?

i think they do have to learn but they can do so safely and without trauma.

I do agree though with the concept of having one bit of space where you don't have to constantly be saying 'no'. Our old living room was like that, once the fireguard was up, DS could have the run of the place basically, and if I did have to make a phone call or go for a poo I knew our prized possessions (including him!) would survive.

i quite agree that 'they need to learn' but i think it refers to the adults not the kids. if they leave it within reach there is a possibility it will get broken, but then if they dont want thier stuff broken they should protect it.

would you really let you dc stand in the road because drivers are supposed to stop if there is someone in the road?

Thanks nora :o

Bwahahahaha at the 'alot'.

We do what I shall call 'baby-led childproofing' (tongue firmly in cheek here). Things get moved when we see there is a danger or when DS is driving me mad by attaching himself to forbidden-ornament-fruit. We have a gate at the bottom of the stairs but didn't put it on until long after DS was crawling, even though our families were nagging us because of the 'risk', simply because he wasn't bloody interested in the stairs! Now he is, we have a gate. Sharp things are kept out of the way because that is just sensible, but I still have ornaments and DVDs and things in the open.

I am a firm believer that children need to learn...but at the right time.
Try to teach DC things too soon and you will become frustrated and they will surely fail.

I remember being about 4 and accidentally breaking an ornament and got screamed at by its owner. whoops!! I didn't break it on purpose obviously but wanted to have a look ... blush