To ask builder to pay for repair work? (long, ranty)

[JumpJockey]

Sorry, this got really long but hopefully covers all the details. Sorry if you lose the will to live halfway, that's kind of how we feel...

we moved house 3 months ago. One of the jobs that needed doing was ripping out the shower room which had leaked badly, and putting in new one. Got several quotes via the website MyBuilder.com, all came in around same price so went with a bloke who had good references and seemed to know what he was on about. He quoted 2k, approx 7 working days.

Started to do the job, ended up needing to take an extra 4 days and charging an extra nearly 1k as the shower had been leaking behind the tiles and the whole floor was rotten and needed to be replaced along with a lot of the hallway ceiling below. He left certain bits unfinished owing to lack of time (eg he was meant to have painted the bathroom floor, replaced trims in hallway) but we thought fair enough, at least the bathroom works. I wrote him a glowing review on the website.

I went to paint the floor and discovered there was water around the base of the loo. Owl. Also when we used the shower, damp patches appeared in the plaster below. He came back three times to try and replumb the loo but finally said Look, I can't work out why it's still leaking, bit I don't have the time in my schedule right now to fix it. So we ended up with no loo and said we'd get someone else to do that as we need the loo to work.

Re the shower, he admitted that the sealant was not right - claims it was a dodgy tube and is taking it up with manufacturers. But had repeatedly claimed he'd sealed the shower tray really carefully before tiling so we didn't end up with a repeat of the shower we found when we moved in. Meanwhile we can't use it because of possible damage to floor below. So he resealed several times, it's still leaking. I called in a new guy to fit the loo, and asked his opinion on shower problems.

Turns out that a) the sealant definitely isn't the right stuff. B) the shower thermostat wasn't fitted properly so water is getting behind the tiles, a couple of which can be wiggled gently, and thence to the skirting board and the base of the loo- so loo plumbing was never the problem. In addition, c) and d) drips from shower head and basin tap were caused because he didn't fit washers, which would have come as part of the kit we bought so not a case of not knowing they were needed.

So, new bloke reckons we need to take out lower part of shower tiling, replace damaged plaster, retile. This will involve taking out the shower cubicle as well. He quotes £550 for this work and new tiles etc.

AIBU to want the original builder to cover that cost, since it's being incurred entirely due to his failure to do a decent job in the first place? We've paid 3k and still have no shower and no loo. We're resigned to probably having to cough up for the loo replumbing and other finishing off jobs. Should we give original guy a chance to make good, or is it at this stage reasonable to say he f*cked up so much of the job that we no longer trust him?

I'll be asking to have the feedback removed from the review website, and am tempted to say if he doesn't cover the costs of putting his work right I'll put up a bad review but that's a bit too much like blackmail.

(we also had to get the shower manufacturers out to calibrate the shower as it never got hot, guy says "oh the whole thing comes as a unit, I can't do anything about that", I looked online at the fitting instructions and stage 3 is Calibrate the thermostat like This...)

I just had my bathroom done - £10,700 - 3 weeks solid work, done properly - sorry but 2K? including all materials, furniture and the price of labour at a reasonable price of £250 per day?....2K would be the labour price on 7 days work let alone anything provided.

No, it was 2k for the original labour only, we provided all materials, shower, tiles etc etc. Not a full bathroom, it is a shower room only, it's just shower, basin, loo, less than 2x2m. The idea had been that he would just take out the old and replace with new, his quote was in line with the others we got.

Give him 7 days in writing to put the work right or you will employ someone else to do it and come after him for the costs.

Ensure you get in writing what the problems currently are.

If he fails to attend to rectify, employ the second guy getting a receipt detailing all the works, then present it to the first guy giving him 7 days to pay, if he does not go via moneyclaimonline to recover your costs via court action, it will cost you £35.00. But you can add this to the cost of the claim.

That would be what I had done - plus bath, ....shower, loo, basin, tiles , floor tiles, grouting, ceiling, decoration, hanging of fittings, re plumb rads, lights, rewiring... that was a good 3 weeks work

Fabby - how exactly do we do that - is it reasonable to say 5 days before Christmas that he has to fix it within 7 days? I talked to him yesterday, he def can't get to us in the early part of the week even to look at what needs doing.

I dont think £2k is necessarily too little, I've been quoted £1100 to instal a shower room from scratch including all tiling. Admittedly there's no ripping out to be done with mine (which you could say is maybe another 3 days work) so I could see that being quoted for £2k total - as the OP says she had several quotes of similar price.

I think I'd ask him to pay. If it was just that he'd obviously rushed it you might think it ok to let him back to have another go, but he seems to have just not really bothered - in your position OP I'd be worried that if he came back and 'fixed' it you'd keep expecting something else to go wrong indefinitely - better to get someone you feel can reliably do a decent job than have the worry of him letting you down again.

Do you have contract? Fabby from where did you take your timeframes from?

If you want him to recompense you you have to offer the work to him first to be rectified, if you choose to go elsewhere without giving him ample time to do it you have no comeback.

Give him five days then or 48 hours, the choice is yours.

Always hold back money for a week after the job is done before parting with the balance of your cash so you get full use of things before paying the last installment.

Troisgarcons - there was no floor tiling, no ceiling work, no corwting (we did painting, put up cupboatprds etc), fitting of any furniture or electrics (got light replaced but that was all). He was just meant to take out old loo and basin, retile shower cubicle, replace shower loo and basin then paint floor at the end of each day. The extra work on the hallway was added on and he got a colleague along to help out. As I said, his quote was the same as the others, £225 a day plus costs of basic plumbery essentials.

There are no set time frames, but you do have to give people ample time, you cannot say immediately etc., If you are seen to be reasonable it stands you in good stead in court.

Give 48 hours, put it in hours on the letter, you have to put something in writing to him though not verbally, you might need evidence for court so in writing is better even if it is an email.

I think if you give him a narrow timeframe the chances of him getting his arse into gear and actually doing the work is pretty slim. So hopefully when he doesn't finish it, you can get someone more reliable in (and recover the cost).

He has already attempted to sort out the problems several times, he never realised that the leak behind the tiles was the actual problem. He suggested putting an extra upstand inside the shower tray, but now we see that wouldn't solve the problem at all. Does that mean we've already done the neccessary giving him a chance? Since it took someone else to realise that the tiles are damaged and the wall will need replastering.

I wouldnt let him get away with it to be honest, sounds like a cowboy.

And its a lot of money just before Christmas whether you can afford it or not, some cannot.

We can't get the other guy to do it til after new year anyway, he said he could start the job but couldn't guarantee to finish if things are more complex than he thinks.

Right, will email him then (have already drafted this!) and give him til The end of this week to sort it out, otherwise we get other guy to do it and he pays. Are there any legal things we should refer to along the line of sale of goods act?

Jump once again do you have a contract

Sorry Christmas - not a contract as such, we have his original quote for the work which details what he would do. The time frame given was subsequently increased because of the extra work needed when he took out the shower cubicle and discovered the whole floor needed replacing.

My husband ran a plumbers merchants and I often helped out in the shop.

A top of the range bathroom, including tiling, grouting, and all fittings would normally be completed in a week, ten days at the maximum, and rarely cost over £5k.

Anyone who manages to drag it out into taking 3 weeks is taking the piss. It may take a couple of days for things to dry, but no way on earth would it take 15 actual days of labour to completely refit a bathroom. No way at all!

Not having a contract doesn't really matter, the Supply of Goods and Services Act covers you. You are entitled to expect that any trader will carry out work using 'reasonable care and skill' and that they have 'professional expertise and knowledge'. So, in this case Plumber A appears to have failed to use reasonable care and skill. He has also, apparently, used incorrect and inappropriate materials (even if the sealant is faulty, if he bought it and used it in your property then he is liable to you for any problems that causes). Would Plumber B put in writing what the issues are? That would be an enormous help to you.
You are entitled to recover any consequential losses that arise out of the original breach (ie the shoddy workmanship). It is always best to let the original trader put things right, but it is not always possible. You have to be seen to provide reasonable time to allow things to be put right, normally. But who's to say that a Judge in the small claims track wouldn't think it is entirely reasonable to get your leaking shower room put right urgently? You have a duty to mitigate your losses, you may be able to argue that prolonging the time before a repair could be carried out, by Plumber A, would have led to greater losses/damage?

Thanks all, very helpful indeed. I'll be emailing him tomorrow saying if he wants to look at the work he can come round but that we want it put right by end of the week otherwise we will get plumber b to sort it and send the invoic to plumber a.

Update - I emailed the guy with vast long details of the situation. He phoned andsaid he wanted to come back and out it right, and could do the work on Thurs and Fri. I said we had basically lost all confidence in his work and he admitted that he'd made some mistakes. Came to the compromise that he would pay the other guy's labour costs and we'd cover the rest. We decided we'd rather cough up a bit more than risk having him do it again and possibly wrong.

Was pretty shaky when I came off the phone! Thanks very much for all the advice.