Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

Original poster

To be hopping mad about this?

23 replies

ParisTravelodge · 18/12/2011 09:05

My Dds (twins aged 14), have just returned from a school trip to Germany.

Whilst there, they and other girls in the group had their bums felt/slapped by German boys of 17/18 yrs.
This happened frequently in markets, shopping centres etc.
They were all horrified by this, and told a female teacher in her 20s, who told the girls it was their own fault for wearing skinny jeans and leggings!

Am writing letter to school about it.
A friend suggested I am overeacting to cultural differences, and the girls should be flattered!
Tbh I am angry at teacher's response mostly.
What do you think?
Has anyone else experienced this?

OP posts:

mrsscoob · 18/12/2011 09:08

THEIR OWN FAULT.??? Oh I would be fuming. YADNBU

LaurieFairyCake · 18/12/2011 09:12

Why are you angry at the teachers response?

She stated a fact, that the girls were drawing attention to themselves by what they were wearing. Girls in Germany seem to dress slightly more conservatively, jeans, hoodies etc. Girls here favour tighter clothing, and less of it.

What exactly could she have done? What would you prefer her response to be ?

If it happened in this country I'd have complained to the police as it's assault but abroad I would think the law may be different and I'd try to dress appropriately.

KittyFane · 18/12/2011 09:12

You are annoyed at the situation, inappropriate of German lads to say the least but don't pile all of your irritation onto this teacher.
A conversation with her expressing concern regarding her response in first instance.
Let her respond to your concerns.
Why dive straight in with letter of complaint when you haven't spoken to the teacher personally?

FirTreeMitTheKrog · 18/12/2011 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NeedlesCuties · 18/12/2011 09:14

Skinny jeans and leggings? WTactualF? Their legs were covered, so what the did teacher want them to wear?

That teacher should be ashamed of herself for spouting those lies to teens.

Complain, loudly to the school.

"Over-reacting to cultural differences"? I doubt it very much. This was in Germany, hardly a million miles away in terms of culture or geography from England (which I'm assuming is where you live).

NeedlesCuties · 18/12/2011 09:17

Laurie in my opinion skinny jeans and leggings aren't skimpy as the legs are covered. Yes they are tighter than normal jeans, but for all we know these girls might have been wearing baggy tops or hoodies over the top.

No matter what, they are young girls and having their legs and bums grabbed by strangers is NOT what they need.

Also, even if they were wearing bikinis around the supermarket these young adult men should realise that groping strangers is not on.

KittyFane · 18/12/2011 09:17

Complain, loudly to the school.
Before discussing it with the teacher concerned?

ShengdanRoad · 18/12/2011 09:18

So your daughters were sexually assaulted and their teacher told them it was their own fault? I would not be ok with that. YANBU.

ThePathanKhansWitch · 18/12/2011 09:18

Your DD was assaulted, and this was the Teachers response .

I would be fucking spitting teeth.

God forbid, i wonder if worse had happened, she would have said the same.

I would be straight to school to talk about it. Totally unacceptable behaviour.

ageperfect · 18/12/2011 09:19

OMG. I would be fuming with anger. She (teacher) is responsible for them,and her reply is actually so stupid that i can't believe that she would respond in such a way. Don't let me even start about your friend. If she thinks that touching or pinching woman bottom should be flattering she is really an IDIOT ,especially girls of 14yrs. That is where is the problem with society and young people. You should be very happy that your dd's are clever to know it is wrong and that they has got respect for their body. You thought them well.It is offence in my books and i would delt with that on the spot by involving police...then and there. I do feel sorry for your friend,specially if she has dd....Report her in writing and talk to hm straight away.HTH

LaurieFairyCake · 18/12/2011 09:20

Dh (teacher) has just said to me she should not have used the phrase 'your fault' so check she did say that.

He said usually the students are told to take some personal responsibility for what they wear and to dress appropriately.

littlepie · 18/12/2011 09:21

Just out of interest what would you have expected the teacher to do?

ThePathanKhansWitch · 18/12/2011 09:24

Also "nice" message to give to young women. Basically your easy meat, your body can be touched without your permission, and if that happens, it's your fault.

I'm so angry on your behalf, and what an awful betrayal of trust for your DD, she goes to an adult with her concerns, and gets this shite spouted to her.

Dear God, no wonder so many rapes/assaults go unreported.

LydiaWickham · 18/12/2011 09:25

I really think you should complain to the teacher. If this was known to be an issue, then the girls should have been told to dress more conservatively - however DH worked in Germany for a couple of years (although granted left about 4 years ago) but I didn't notice a massive difference in the skimpiness of outfits, in fact the local ladies did seem to be rocking the leggings and high heeled ankle boots look a few years before it hit the UK... (mind you, he did work in a very 'international business' city so there was a lot of non-German woman and a lot of German woman who spent a lot of time in other countries.)

What there is, is a much more acceptance of men acting in sexist and preditory way. There's a lot less challenges of bad behaviour like this, so boys/men find it acceptable. I got pinched/slapped several times whilst wearing incredibly mumsy clothing. What seemed to work was turning round, screaming abuse in a mixture of English, French and very bad German along with drunkenly threatening to call over policemen near by to make a complaint...

Teachers shouldn't be reinforcing victim blaming - and I would imagine a lot of Germans would be most insulted to be told that schools were telling girls to 'cover up' in their country for fear of abuse.

bananamam · 18/12/2011 09:28

Laurie really? So they asked for it then? the teachers response was very wrong. Even if they we walking around in nothing but a belt, they do not deserve nor "ask" to be felt up by strangers unless the actual words "please feel free to slap my arse" pass their lips which I I highly doubt they did. I am angry for you op. YANBU I have a young dd and the ideo of her clothing suggesting she deserves anything really disturbs me.

D0G · 18/12/2011 09:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sashh · 18/12/2011 09:32

Check what was actually said, the actual words. What could the teaccher do? Could they identify the specific boy? If they could then what did the teacher expect.

Yes they have been assaulted and this should not happen BUT, and it is a big but, is it culturally appropriate in Germanny for this to happen? Is it sulturally appropriate for it to happen in Germany when wearing leggings?

Were they told "In Germany leggings are seen as X, if you want to make sure it doesn't happen then Y Z, of and the phrase for keep your hands to yourself is....................."

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 09:34

:o YADNBU. Another teacher in her twenties here who would never dream of saying that. What an awful and uneducated thing to say!

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 09:35

Oops that was meant to be a shocked face! Never mind, bloody iPhone.

Even if it culturally different in Germany it doesn't mean it's alright. :s

jarl · 18/12/2011 09:35

YABU.

from our POV, inappropriate by the german lads. From the german lad's POV, they might as well have had a sticker on their bums saying "squeeze me" with those clothes on. What would you have said as the teacher with understanding of the situation? "yeah, those german men are horrible, live with it" or "yeah, you're in a different culture sweetie, try changing your clothes".

LaurieFairyCake · 18/12/2011 11:20

Bananaman - of course they didn't 'ask for it' - but I do think it is possible to bear some personal responsibility for our clothing while in a different culture.

In this country we have laws to protect women and we do not have a culture of 'asking for it' if wearing little clothing (though obviously juries clearly don't see it like that).

I wouldn't put up with harassment in this country but I would (and have) been more aggressive, careful, worn more appropriate clothing in other cultures.

bananamam · 18/12/2011 11:25

It was Germany though...it was hardly Saudi!

bananamam · 18/12/2011 11:26

Are there two of these threads???

Flip