To ask my 4 year old to respect all the grown ups on our holiday and say goodnight back when they say it to him

[myfairlady]

I am on holiday in Bali, and my 4 year old DS is the only child, and I am the only parent....the rest are family members with either no or grown up children. And my child is a stubborn little boy and does lots and lots of no listening or answering and doing his own thing, against orders and it is hard!!! All that is going round my head is...oh no I can't let him get away with it, they'll think I'm a terrible mother and consequently I try and reprimand him, get in a fight with him, upset him, and he gets punished by me sent to bed early or what ever and he feels bad and sad and I am angry with myself for being a terrible mother and having traumatised my kid and all my family members when he could have just gone to bed obediently (as he was doing) even though he said no good nights back...so what....god I am really messing with his head and I feel terrible. I'm trying to be a good mother and instead being a bad one....I want to learn from this and really hope that the are no lasting psychological consequences as when he did go to bed after fight he said, "mummy it's all my fault! And I am soooo sad" .... what am I doing???

I think you need to work out some clear behaviour guidelines and reward him for sticking to them. Try not to change them...that way you'll both know what you expect.

No parent should be getting into a 'fight' with their child, especially a 4yr old.

But calm down. You're not a terrible Mother, you just need an action plan.

......and breeeeeaaathe!

Wow are you always this hard on yourself & your DS? "against orders" ??

I understand the pressures we mums put on ourselves to look like the perfect mums but your non-child friends have to make allowances for your DS not the other way around surely? He is only 4 & probably bored to tears & therefore playing up. Are you doing anything fun for him or is he just tagging along?

Encourage him to say g'nights & praise when he does but ignore when he doesn't, you can't force it.

It's his holiday as well as yours try & get a balance, you're not a terrible mum just a stressed one I think?!

I would have made him say goodnight if that's any consolation. I can't abide being ignored and it's something that I've battled with my DD (5) over in the past.

It sounds as if you're doing fine.

Dealing with stubborn, selfish disobedience is part of parenting a 4 year old. Just think how much worse it will be when he's bigger if you don't tackle it now.

Stick to your guns. Simplify the rules as much as possible, then stick to them with predictable sanctions.

Don't let him manipulate you: eg "mummy it's all my fault" - try saying briskly "yes it was, wasn't it. But next time, you'll know what to do".

And even if he doesn't say "goodnight", he does need to learn to look at people who are talking to him and make some kind of acknowledgement. Even shy children will benefit from learning social norms as a kind of reflex.

I agree with the others, don't beat yourself up and get into battles. However, I do think its reasonable to expect a 4 yr old to respond when spoken to. If he's 4 he's either at school or coming up to school age and it's worrying if he ignores adults as responding is a basic social skill. So do all you can to praise positive Behaviour and ignore negative but don't let the whole holiday turn into a battleground

What a response..thanks mums...yes holiday maybe a tad boring although we went on safari today, but being an only child away is never a good thing, he tagged onto other kids so fast today at the safari park. I like the praising him for good and ignoring bad, heard that one before and my dear brother ( a dinky) had actually a good idea, stay strict and discipline just 2 things and let all the others go for now and when you've got that under the belt bring in third etc...my big big fear is...and this is why I find it hard to let dissobience slide by, is that if I don't nip it in bud now he will grow up to be an awful person....I feel it's all my responsibility, all on my shoulders....I actually admitted today to my mum and step dad that even though I love my DS more than anything, I don't like the logistics of being a mum, it's so not natural to me, but I get on with it, feeling inadequate most of the time but still give it my all, and it makes me grumpy!

I am sure everyone there understands what stubborn little buggers 4yo's are. So long they see you are doing your best and trying to make him behave, then you have nothing to worry about. It is when kids are rude, and their parents ignore, laugh about, or condone it, that people will assume you are a shit parent.

I disagree completely with "ignoring the bad" because to a child that age, something that is ignored means in their head that it is acceptable to do.

Ah he's only 4 and prob doesn't even understand why it's polite to respond. At least you're working on his manners, don't be so hard on yourself or him. Enjoy your time together in a lovely place and forget he's the only child-don't be stressing what the other adults think, they'll be too wrapped up in their own holiday.

Bet the other adults are "loving" it...probably not a good idea taking a 4yr.old on an adults only holiday...do they have children' clubs or anything where he could mix and relax with other kids? Just grit your teeth and say "never again"..it will soon be over and you can get home and relax..we have all made mistakes.

Waiting until you are both calm, and talking to your son, setting out the groundrules and the consequences for breaking those rules, is good advice. I would also suggest that you pick your battles. For example, in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a terrible behaviour issue if your child doesn't say good night to everyone - it doesn't make him a badly behaved little boy. Perhaps you could try saying, "OK Wilfred (or whatever his name is), it's bedtime - are you going to say goodnight to everyone, or shall I say it for you?" - and if he doesn't want to say goodnight, then you cheerfully say, "Wilfred's off to bed now, goodnight everyone", and take him off to bed.

Decide what things really matter, and what ones don't, and that will help reduce the opportunities for conflict - and in my experience with little boys, conflict can breed conflict - if you have one row about something, it can rumble on into another bit of bad behaviour, and another, and so on, whereas if you can turn a blind eye to stuff that doesn't matter, you can create a calmer atmosphere, which might help reduce the chance that more major things will create conflict.

Good luck with this, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday - I am very of you being in Bali!

Lots of good advice already but I thought I'd just throw into the mix the idea of making a joke of it. For example if someone has said goodbye to him and he's unresponsive you could (gently) move his jaw and say in a silly voice "night, night my bestest most favourite uncle/grandad (whoever), can I give you a sloppy wet kiss". To which he, if he's anything like my four yr old, will protest profusly and you can say "well you'd better say your goodnights properly then, off you pop".

Or, if he would object to the physical contact you could say "Timmy, soandso is saying goodnight to you, quick say it back or else they will insist on giving you a big fat kiss on the lips".

Then when your alone you can gently remind him of the rules about responding when being spoken to. My eldest was terrible for ignoring social niceties, he was always in a world of his own. He's nearly seven now and whilst still occasionally needs a reminder he is so much better at it. You sound like your doing a great job and it's never bad to focus on manners, but perhaps you could try and employ a few different strategies depending on the transgression and try and avoid it always escalating into a battle.

But do LOVE him a lot. If it feels to you like you're looking out for him to get something wrong all the time, it probably feels like that to him too. I'm pretty strict in a lot of ways, but I'd really advise...love first, act second. And although, absolutely, be clear about what you expect from him, be consistent, but DON'T get panicky if you don't get what you want. Just love him, and keep working at it.

And for gods sake, let go of the fear that other people are judging you. Someone's ALWAYS going to be judging you, for being too strict, too slack, too relaxed, too hooked on routine, truly, if you're going to be unhappy every time someone judges you, you're going to have a very unhappy life. Find what you really believe in and stick to it.

Honestly, life's too short to give yourself a horrible time, especially with the people you love most in the world.

I used to feel like this in front of my family, it took me a few year to find my feet and feel confident in front of them, personally I would find being on an adult only holiday quite stressful and may have similar worries about my children behaving.

BUT, it is a holiday and he is not a performing monkey. His routines will be out and may feel uncertain about what's going on, so cut him a little slack. I would decide on the key things you have an issue with and let the rest go, otherwise you are going to spend all day nagging him about being polite, holding his cutlery, doing this, doing that, it sounds horrid. And last thing at night is not the ideal time to lay down the law.

Being sent to bed early would be for a major crime for me, failing to say goodnight after a tiring day would not be that crime. You have very high expectations of a four year old, and I'm pretty hot on manners/politeness in public. But he does need to let off steam a bit, he's on constant show and if you are not careful he will remember than and not the animals.

squeakytoy by "ignoring the bad" I mean as in not making a fuss, not ignoring

You state firmly that the action or lack of it is unnacceptable (or whatever your word of choice is but make it consistant) and then quickly divert or move on, no point in making you both unhappy by prolonging the negative atmosphere.

I quite agree with you that you have to make it clear when you are reprimanding.

Lots of great suggestions here. My only addition would be not to worry about what other people think of the way you parent your child. Worrying about how others see you is bound to skew your behaviour and you will end up doing/saying something you regret, and possibly sending the message to your son that what other people think is more important to you than he is.

Just work out what is important to you behaviour-wise from your son and some basic ground rules - the 2 things as your brother suggested - and stick with that.

Have a great holiday

Okay. Do what you would do at home.

A tired 4yo not saying goodnight like Christopher Robin would do is not abnormal, or a disaster.

Sounds like you can't be the parent you naturally are around your family, which is sad.

Treat him as you would at home. If they don't like it, what are they going to do about it?
Stand up for him and what he knows, he probably has no idea that this sort of unusual stuff is expected of him, so chill a little, and be on his side.

Not worth - seriously not worth having a row with him, for their sake. That will make him sad and upset. It's his holiday too.

Actually, I think I'm going against the grain with this one. When our DC were 5 and 18months DHs Sis came over from the antipodes with her son who was 3. We treated them to long weekend at Centerparcs. During the four days, her ds did not say please and thank you once and was not reminded, was allowed to thump our 18 month old and was barely remonstrated with, responded to every offer of something, ie, "would you like a drink, biscuit, swim, with Yeh and no correction. Was the only child there who picked up boulders from the displays an started throwing them down onto other children and mother did not discipline - the only child a life guard had to intervene over.

It was the most stressful four days of my life, not helped by SIL doing diddly squat to help and watching us cook, tidy, clear up and supervise three children including hers whilst she laid on a sofa and read a book and complained about how hard up she was and how her life wasn't like ours and how she didn't do any housework. She was treated to the long weekend, to meals out, to all her travel expenses, to activities for her son, she did not so much as offer to buy the children an ice-cream or a coffee for dh and I.

I do think you need to think a bit about the feelings and standards of others and try to accommodate other people's feelings and sensitivities. Manners do matter and regrettably this lad, without boundaries, has had a very difficult time at school and is always in trouble.