to avoid (a bit rudely), this woman because I disapprove of what she did with DH even though DH is friendly with her?

[stickette]

Hard to sum it up in a subject line!

When DH was 17 he had an affair/fling/whatever with one of his mother's friends. She was late 30s at the time (MIL a few years older). She and MIL were very close. She babysat him when he was younger.

Now, as far as DH is concerned it was a fling, he was in it for the fun and it was embarrassing when people found out (she told MIL while drunk). This woman is still friends with MIL.

At MIL's birthday party some years ago, when DH and I were first together and I was being 'introduced' to MIL and FIL and their friends, this woman cornered me in the loos. Now, DH had already told me about their fling as an aside to a conversation about age-gap relationships. During that conversation he told me some details of how she'd behaved during their fling which made be think she wanted more of a relationship iyswim.

Anyway. If he hadn't already told me about it, what she said in the loos at this restaurant would've made it crystal clear and I found that massively inappropriate. I just sort of backed out of there.

Since then, and since we've had the DCs, I've done some thinking about the whole thing. I'm about the age she was when she and DH were shagging and I would never want to have sex with a teenager, especially a shy inexperienced one (as DH was). If she'd been a man and DH a girl, I think people would've been up in arms about it and TBH I'd be horrified if one of my friends was having sex with my DS.

DH isn't in the least bothered or scarred by what happened and I tend to keep my negative feelings about this woman to myself.

However she's just moved into our area, just a few streets away, and we keep bumping into her in the park etc. She has invited DH (not me and DH), out for drinks, keeps offering to babysit the DCs etc.

I don't like her. I just don't. She was rude to me. I don't for a second think she's any kind of threat. I just don't like her and don't want to be around her and I bet I get flamed for this but I think what she did with DH was massively wrong.

So I avoid her - when we bump into her I sort of smile and wander off after the DCs. I deflect her 'shall we go out for coffees' and I am pretty sure it must be obvious that I don't want to be friends.

DH doesn't get it at all and thinks I am being silly. He thinks she's a bit pathetic and wants someone to go to the pub with. He doesn't try to get me to be pally with her or anything but he really doesn't understand why I have any kind of problem with her.

So, AIBU?

Rudolph - I fail to see how you can equate a mixed race relationship with a babysitter seducing a 17 year old.

I certainly DO NOT subscribe to the "she was gagging for it" line thank you very much.

The trouble with this forum is it often contains people who cant read what is written and have an overwhelming desire to put a spin and declare an -ism or -ist where there is none intended. I've never met so many professionally offended people.

Go and watch people behaviour of people - its fascinating. You can try all you like to wipe out gender sterotyping - but you see it in everyday life.

I would feel as you do, OP, for all the reasons you feel them. I wouldn't like/trsut someone who lacks dignity in the way she seems to.

trust

So in general Trois you think:

• Teenage girls are more predatory than teenage boys
• Teenage boys are more naive than teenage girls
• Girls & women are much more manipulative than boys & men
• Girls & women flirt sexually with their own fathers to get their own way
• A 30+ man shagging a 17 yr old girl, introducing her to anal sex and drugs, is normal
• A 30+ woman shagging a 17 yr old boy, introducing him to anal sex and drugs, is not normal

So presumably if a 30+ male friend of yours introduces one of your sons (if you have sons) to anal sex and drugs when he is 17 you'd be fine with that because men having sex with teenagers they have known since birth and babysat for is just to be expected really. It's the sexy children/teens that are at fault. But only if they're female of course.

Must say I've never had to flirt sexually with my dad for any reason whatsoever and if I did he would be horrified and revolted and would probably have sat me down along with my mum and spoken to me about why I would feel the need to do that and why it's not either necessary or appropriate and he would have wanted to know where I was getting that message from.

Stickette the specific details of anal sex and drugs had passed me by but it just gets worse. MIL was happy for her son to be introduced to drugs by her best friend at 17? Fucked up. Massive breach of trust.

And her disrespect of you is key.

I'd hope, if it were me, my DH would be able to see that

Trois. You are so very intellectual and well read.

DSH - no I'm not - but thank you anyway. A voracious reader yes, well read, no. Never read Jung in my life but I know what his ideas are. Similarly with Freud.

And there is a theory that Freud lied about the 'Electra complex' because in those days, talking about dads abusing their daughters was massively controversial. So he blamed the victim.

Oh - and a tangent thought - how often do we hear the phrase mummys boy/daddys girl? Oedipus and Electra again.

I have to say that I'd have a very quiet but extremely BLUNT word with her.

I'd tell her that MIL may have a lifetime's supply of chill pills to take over the fact that her friend shagged her own son, but that if that was something that someone had done with YOUR DS, you'd be serving time.

I'd TELL her that what she is IS disgusting and that I couldn't give a shit what someone of her kind thinks about me. I'd TELL her to FTFO and treat her with open contempt whenever i saw her. I'd also tell MIL that I was not concerned about how it looks to her, that I am not OK with her treatment of me, or my family and that therefore wouldn't allow her to be included in anything where I had a say in invitations. She'd also be the last person allowed anywhere near my kids.

I'd be strongly suggesting that the FB thingy is removed too. She has no right of access to your DH/Family.

If this were a 17yo girl and a late 30s bloke the whole world would be up in arms. I see abuse of position/circumstances regardless of gender here.

Your H is entitled to his own feelings about his past encounter with this woman. If he's fine with it, stop picking at the subject. As to the woman's behaviour now, she sounds like someone who's own life is a bit of a failure, hence the harking back to the past when she was daring and taboo-busting and 'hot'. Just keep a calm, civil distance from her as much as you can. It doesn't sound like your H is desperate to be close friends with her, but the more you go on at him, the more he is likely to feel that actually he'll make his own decisions, thanks.

YANBU. At all. Horrible situation!

"The trouble with this forum is it often contains people who cant read what is written and have an overwhelming desire to put a spin and declare an -ism or -ist where there is none intended"

Troisgarcons, that's the best summing up of MN I have seen in 12 years

Um eurh, wouldn't leave my kids with her as you know what she does with them.

Act how you feel like acting she's being inappropriate (which she has form for clearly) your mil is nuts to expect you to invite her to your wedding or to be friends with someone who shagged her teenage son.

Yanbu - she is disgusting! I quite like houdinhissy's approach to this situation.
I too wonder why your dh has her as an fb friend (I'm not saying he has feelings for her, not at all but seeing how she treated you in the past and her 'desperation' to be your friend it does seem innapropriate). keep your distance from this creepy woman who still likes to dine out on her sick seduction of a boy she knew as a small child. I am aghast your mil is still friends with her, does she know about the drugs etc? Ughh, this creepy woman sounds more and more vile the more I think about it.

Well here's the thing you need to point out to your DH, while you having a problem with the age gap of his relationship at 17 is your problem to deal with, the other factors mean she should be kept away from your family.

She babysat for him then when he was 17 slept with him, at what point did she become sexually attracted to him? Just before their relationship started? A year before? 2 years? If she'd met him for the first time at 17 and was instantly attracted, it would be less of a problem in my mind, but I wouldn't want to risk her babysitting my DCs, it'd be a crap evening out anyway with you worrying about her.

Re telling you details about what they have done, twell there's two ways to look at this either, she did realise this was a completely inappropriate thing to say to an ex's current partner, and so her motives for doing so could be a) she wanted to hurt you, a woman she barely knows, b) wanted to split you up, suggesting she either wanted your DH back or just wanted to damage your relationship, in either case, this isn't someone you want in your life or anywhere near your DCs.

Alternatively, she didn't realise this was an inapporpriate thing to say, and therefore has massive social problems and doesnt understand basic norms regarding discussing sexual behaviour - if she doesn't get this was wrong to say, then she might say something similar to your DCs, or in a group situation to someone say, your DH works with etc. Do you really want her in your life and take the risk?

The anal sex issue wouldn't bother me, quite frankly it's not the most unusual thing in the world, however, introducing drugs might be more of an issue for me - it just seems a little more abusive.

And finally, I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell your current partner you don't want their previous partner to be part of your life (assuming no DCs). One who has shown she's prepared to cross boundaries and mark territory like she did has lost any claim she could be a friend to both of you, and he should respect your views on this.

YANBU
She was really creepy by shagging him on the first place, she was a bitch to tell his mum and even more so to tell you. Avoid avoid avoid.

Actually, yes, EricNordman is right - what sort of cow tells a blokes mum what she'd done with him???? His mum? Blugh - can you imagine the horror of that conversation the mum had? As much as I know when DS grows up he'll have a sex life, I don't want to ever hear details

OP - I like your approach to this nutter woman, you sound v sensible.

Here's why...

At 16 I had a fling with a 33yo man. He was our family gp, married with young children and a family friend.

Some years later, when I had married but before children, we bumped into each other again. He was super keen to be in touch and then wrote to say he had always loved me etc.

It felt terrible. To cut a long story short, it forced me to confront my feelings about the fling (v uncomfortable) and I belatedly reported him for breaching dr-patient code.

People say it's different for men, that teenage boys having sex with older women in position of trust doesn't harm them in the way as teenage girls & older men (trusted e.g. teachers). Possibly this is symptomatic of our still very sexist world, but I can tell you that when trust is breached and boundaries crossed in this way, it really does mess with your head.

What to do? I like your attitude of concern and protecting your DH and children. It's a huge thing for your DH to confront though so I can understand why he would rather not.

But could he respect your discomfort with the situation enough to agree on a level of contact with her? e.g. to not socialise with her unless unavoidable e.g. at mil's house? I think maybe ask him to respect your feelings rather than try to persuade him to see sense about the past because that would probably feel like huge pressure to him.

LydiaWickham is talking good sense.

Sometimes men can't see what women see. It seems as if your DH sees your MIL's friend as part of the furniture that he had a fling with and she's kind of a fixture on the scene.

However, this woman is obviously marking her territory and being possessive over your DH.
-she has befriended him on FB but not you
-she has asked him out for a drink, but not you

• she has said that cringey inappropriate remark, "I taught him everything he knows"

Now if that's not laying a claim to him and trying to undermine you, I don't know what is.

The bit I have a big problem with is the fact that she babysat him and saw her mindee as fair game sex prey. When you babysit, you feel protective and maternal/paternal; towards your charges. You do not try and imagine what they're like in bed.

If any of my friends slept with my son after having babysat him in the past, there would be no friendship left. It might not technically be abuse, but it's dodgy as hell and wildly inappropriate.

This woman is toxic and you need to talk to your DH. Like previous posters have said, try him with a reverse scenario. Say you are Facebook friends with a much older man who wants to go for a drink with you and taught you everything know sexually at the age of 17. See how that goes!

Good post YOS. Sums it up perfectly, I agree.
Dangerous woman, untrustworthy (for what greater breach of trust?) and I am inclined to think your MIL is a very strange woman to boot.

Most 17 year old boys fantasise about sex with an older woman.
Nothing wrong with their fling.
However, I wouldn't like the fact she wants to go out socialising alone with a married man.
I wouldn't want her to babysit.
I wouldn't want her contacting my dh.
I would have found her behaviour in the toilets wrong.
I wouldn't want to go for a coffee with her.
Stick to your guns, you don't have to like her or be her friend.