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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that somebody should take my nephew to see a HV or GP? Or is it none of my business/nothing to worry about?

52 replies

BackToB4Beatrice · 13/12/2011 23:12

BIL had a son 20 months ago. Both him and the GF were teenagers, and had only been together a few weeks, after a few months together, they split, and it wasn't on the greatest of terms. The baby's mother struggled some what, being 17 and on her own and possible having undiagnosed PND (IMO, in-laws seem to think this is something that only "bad" mothers have- I know, I know!). She struggled with money, and budgeting, BIL was on the dole, we sent milk powder, clothes etc, but did not send cash, as we couldn't honestly honestly say it would of been spent where it was needed.

I actually am happy to help the baby's mother, support her, whatever. I feel she is not a bad person at all, but probably just needs a good role model, and some help- which she would not of been getting from her side of the family AT ALL.

Not sure if/how this is relevant, but thought the background may help.

DN is now 20 months. He does not say ONE word. No mum, dad, dog anything. He is very happy, smiley and cheerfull, but does not seem to NEED anyone or anything. He is no different, happy or sad, no matter who comes in or out of the room. If you take something off him that he is not supposed to have, he never tries to take it back, never seems to care. I actually cannot remember the last time I heard him cry. Certainly not since he was a newborn. He just seems to be in his own little world. He does chat too him self though. I have also just realised that I have never seen him do any kind of role play with toys (maybe he is still too young), he just bangs toys together/ on the floor.

Does anybody think there maybe something wrong? Or is it normal. Happy to answer more questions if needed.

Also there was a phase where he was being shipped about a bit. BIL didn't want him any more than two days (one over night) per fortnight. His mother did not want him all the time whilst her friends were off school/college. He spent some time at my inlaws, and although MIL has had five kids, she is very busy, works PT, very into housework etc, so I'm not sure she has really noticed?

Would like to know if you guys think there could be something wrong? Whether I should say any thing, and if so, how should I go about it? MIL already thinks I'm a bit stuck up, I'm sure, not sure how well she would take it. Also I could be worrying over nothing as DD is 2.4 and was always on the sharp end of everything developmentally (very normal- but always did everything a tad sooner), so he could be fine?

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
BackToB4Beatrice · 14/12/2011 11:58

Right-thanks JimJams and all others. I will check out all the links and info that you have posted. I will then have a think about how to say something if need be. Problem is- if I go straight to the baby's mother, I will be by-passing ILs which will go down like a lead balloon. If I go to ILs they will find a reason to blame DNs mother. Arg. Any ideas for that one?
I may get DH to talk BIL.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 14/12/2011 20:33

some childrenw ith ASd have super hearing for bizarre things.

it is all about play skills, role play in simplest form for a toddler. eg give him a spoon and a teddy. does he try to feed the teddy?

put teddy or doll and a biscuit - does he try to feed biscuit to the teddy or doll?
give the child a box and pretend it is a bus or car whatever he is sued to going on - say let's get in the bus !
if he gets it - all fine
if he cannot accept that a box can be a bus then he may have a problem.

toddlers can get this idea - give him a pretend toy phone does he imitate talking on phone babble into it? a one year old will do this. (doesnt matter if can speak or not it is about the imitation)

look at a book with him point to pictures - get his interst - /lookthen close your eyes and continue pointing to pages, does toddler notice and push you to wake up? doess/he react in some way to you closing your eyes ? a typical one will -because they are always checking you looking - their eyes look to yours fleetingly all the time. this is joint and shared attention. try it with your own child.

does toddler find things and bring them to you to show?

FabbyChic · 14/12/2011 20:39

Id never see a HV ever, they are not quailfied to diagnose, if you are concerned take him to your own GP saying you are looking after him etc., and make up some shit.

However, some babies are very contented and do not need stimulation, maybe he has learnt to amuse himself rather than cry for attention because he gets none.

EricNordmanfirandMistletoe · 14/12/2011 20:53

I thought attachment issu3s when you described his lack of affect, though he also sounds similar to friend's DD who has hfa.

skybluepearl · 14/12/2011 20:58

I would see where hes at aged 2. Language develops greatly about this age.

cestlavielife · 14/12/2011 21:02

hvs (and gps) can refer on for proper assessment if there are concerns eg if CHAT checklist throws up questions.

the speech bit is a red herring at 20 months if he can say around ten words - is able to physically -

Original poster
BackToB4Beatrice · 14/12/2011 22:34

Right- thanks for all your help. Cest- your advice is much appreciated. We are going to see him at the weekend so will be able to just play and have a little look. Sadly, however, my instincts are that he doesn't do any of these things. DD role plays with dolls all the time and has all the prams/bottles/cribs, and he has never joined in or done anything other than bash or carry them about (until my DD toy snatches off of him Blush, which, again provokes no reaction). He also cannot point to his or someone else's nose, eyes, mouth etc, but then if nobody has ever showed him, how would he know??

However, on a much positive note, I do remember MIL saying something about buying him a toy phone and him loving it. So hopefully that is a good sign that perhaps he is fine, and maybe just needs a little bit of time.
I really hope so.
No doubt I will be back here asking for advice over the weekend.

Thanks everybody.

OP posts:
WibblyBibble · 15/12/2011 00:31

TBH I don't think at his age, if he seems happy, that you/she need to worry just yet. I know lots of toddlers that age who aren't talking or doing 'imaginative play' yet, and imagine most of them are fine. Really doubt an attachment disorder, but in addition to the pointing-to-show thing people have mentioned for autism, attachment issues in babies/toddlers are tested by looking at the response when mum comes back after being absent. If he goes to her for cuddles etc then he's fine. If he 'punishes' her by crying but then goes for cuddles, also fine. If he seems unbothered and ignores her, or is aggressive/upset for a long period with her, that's not great iirc. Also is he upset when she leaves? Though not all kids are, if they are sufficiently distracted or used to another care-giver, so would have to be with someone who doesn't normally look after him (in the psych experiments it was with a psychologist, who obviously the toddler didn't know already). Attachment disorders are caused by quite severe/prolonged seperations from the mother/main carer at over 6 months but before three (so e.g. there can be problems in babies adopted at that age, for example- not necessarily but it's a risk factor), not normally just by having a bit of a distracted mother or anything like that!

ballroomblitz · 15/12/2011 00:42

It's not so much the pointing to things if you ask, it's more them pointing to stuff wanting to communicate that something has caught their attention iirc. Ds has a speech delay and jimjams is right, it is difficult to get anyone to get them to take it seriously before the age of three. If knew myself he was speech delayed but they would only start SLT after the age of three.

Surestart, as others have mentioned may be a good place to start.

saladsandwich · 15/12/2011 00:46

at 20months ol i wouldnt be that concerned with the role play, children dont start role play till 2 years, the speech may come along. i would be worried if he is behind with everything. could you just mention the 2 year check to them, make it sound like its a big deal and that she should ring up to enquire?

saladsandwich · 15/12/2011 00:48

will add ds has speech delay, hes been seen on and off from 2 years but he wasnt babbling, he didnt talk while 2 and half but it still fits into "normal" but he has problems

ThatVikRinA22 · 15/12/2011 00:54

sounds like my DS was, who has ASD (asperger syndrome specifically).
i just thought he was an easy baby!
perhaps encourage her to see the HV, and raise your concerns? the earlier something is picked up the better imo, if there is something.

when the penny dropped with DS, i realised that the signs were all there from a very early age - he didnt point, he didnt move, i could put him down, walk out and walk back and he would still be where i put him, when well meaning friends and relatives said "oh i bet he's into everything" i was puzzled....because he wasnt!
i got such a shock when i had my second!

you sound lovely, and very perceptive. is this something you could broach with the little boys mum?

hohohoshedittant · 15/12/2011 01:12

Does he follow instructions? If you ask him to close the door or bring me the car etc?

himynameisfred · 15/12/2011 01:13

OP
Congrats. You just gave a perfect description of an Autistic child.

You just described my son at that age, and the blame people place on assuming the mother just doesn't speak to them enough.
I didn't notice, as he was my first.

I suggest you help her get him onto the 2yr pilot scheme, where the government pays for a nursery placement for 2 year olds in certain circumstances.
Contact the local childrens' centre for advice.

Your nephews other/main carer needs to take the child to the GP to be refered to a Paediatrician, no one else can refer the child, not even a health visitor.

saintlyjimjams · 15/12/2011 07:44

That's not always true him - the HV referred on my son (in 2 different areas). I didn't ever see the GP.

saintlyjimjams · 15/12/2011 07:47

Agree that it's the pointing to things of interest that is important (think of a toddler in a buggy excited by a passing dog - they can't say dog - what do they do?' and no chikd should need to be taught to point (to body parts either) tbh. If you find yourself teaching them everything hand over hand because it's the only way they learn then that's another sign of problems.

Original poster
BackToB4Beatrice · 15/12/2011 10:10

WibbleBibble- he does not get excited/distressed/happy with ANYBODY, including his mum. I know this, as I took DN and BIL back to his mothers as their car was broke. He treats and regards everybody the same.

Am worried for him Sad .

OP posts:
himynameisfred · 15/12/2011 10:43

a health visitor can refer you onto many things.

A paediatrician hasn't been something they could refer us to in two different areas I lived.
A GP was the only way to be refered, here in Lincolnshire and back in Nottingahmshire.

himynameisfred · 15/12/2011 10:45

A child would have to literally be locked in a cage and given no attention whatso-ever for that behaviour to be a result of parenting.

The poor thing has Autism, come back here next year and tell us about the diagnosis.

spiderpig8 · 15/12/2011 10:51

He sounds just like my brother at that age. We all thought there was something wrong.
But no, he is a warm, generous , popular adult and strangely like the poster above's DS, is an oxbridge physics graduate.

spiderpig8 · 15/12/2011 10:51

..and role play doesn't generally happen at 20m

SecondRow · 15/12/2011 10:52

What about eye contact when you are talking to him?

silverfrog · 15/12/2011 10:57

spiderpig - the type of role play spelled out here does generally happen by 20 months - gesturing with a spoon towards a doll/teddy's mouth, pouring a cup of tea/juice/whatever when given a toy teapot and a cup, being able to 'get' pretend stuff like a big box being a bus/aeroplane/train/whatever appropriate.

and, btw, my stepdaughter is on the spectrum, and is a warm, generous, popular adult - also a graduate (but not oxbridge as they don't offer her course). havign autism does not mean you are not warm, funny, popular, generous, or any other 'nice' personality trait.

OP - you have had some excellent advice here, on the whole. I would go with running through the CHAT type questions - they are quick and simple, and failing the CHAT is an indication that something is not right developmentally, and warrants further investigation. It does not necessarily mean autism.

Original poster
BackToB4Beatrice · 15/12/2011 11:02

Well I will see him at the weekend, and no doubt I will be back, wanting more advice.

Am really worried about being in the position where I HAVE to say something. I know ILs will see it as a slight on them, thy I'm suggesting their other GC isn't "perfect". I know this is utter bollocks, as obviously autism and the like is nobodys fault, and NOTHING to be ashamed of. But they are very very old fashioned (pre-historic) and will just blame the baby's mother, which is just so so unfair.

I just really feel for him, because if they do get a diagnosis, without wanting to sound dramatic, somebody will need to step up and fight for him.

I have no experience will SN, but have read on here about the constant struggles to get their LO the help they need and getting them into the right schools etc. I know how hard I have had to work to get DDs allergies diagnosed and onto correct milk and referred to the right people.

I just feel right now, nobody will do this for him.

But.....maybe I'm wrong...maybe they will. And also...maybe he IS fine and I'm just over reacting.

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 15/12/2011 11:12

i should also point out that my son is now 20, warm, funny, loving and generous, with ASD, also an undergrad in computer sciences. Having a SN doesnt have to be the end of the world.

the important thing is that he is loved and supported, and the earlier any difficulties are picked up the better.