To think that we are all in denial about climate change?

[toptramp]

What's all this David Attenborough backlash about? On last week's frozen plant there was clear footage of ice breaking up. Ok- that alone can't proove that man is causing climate change but he is right imo.

It's not the fault of the polar bears or teh penguins or freak weather systems but it is man that is causeing much of the damage. Man and our pollution. I was just reading the Telegraph today and in the artice 'Attenborough stumble on melting ice' Charle's Moor writes about the last frozen planet "Beyond a vaguely uneasy feeling that climate change around the poles might be important and dangerous the programme had no message" Really? I thought the programme had a very clear message "stop burning fossil fuels" being one of them.

The problem is we don't like to admit that we might be the problem here as that would involve big changes and we don't like big changes. I just don't understand why some people can't admit taht yes man is soiling his own nest and therefore lets do something about it; lets make changes. I will be very sad when (and not if) polar bears go extinct.

Having re-read the OP, I have felt (yea, tis so) a shift in my persuasions. Nay, a Damascene moment.

She's right about the polar bears, y'know.

..as recently as the 70s, they were commonplace.

Atop glacier mints, and extolling the virtues of Cresta (it's frothy, man).

(wrings hands. Puts down deposit on Toyota Pious)

Oh.

Another thought for the OP.

You were concerned for the fate of a frozen plant.

A cheering thought.

If the plant in question is, say, a parsnip, then all is well. They are much much tastier after a frost, aren't they?

for all those still unsure of some of the basic arguments around the reality or otherwise of climate change, www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php gives some good answers to the sort of questions somebloke raises.

I did used to be anti gm foods but over time I have come to believe that it could be very useful to us and mabe not as harmful to the environment as we might think.

In an ideal world we'd all live on small holdings and grow our own with chickens etc but I know that is never going to happen and tbh I do like my mod cons and the convenbience of modern life. I used to stress far more but tbh I am slowly giving up worrying as life is too short. I do love polar bears though.

I wish I could afford the deposit for a car.

Statistically the current temperature variation is well within "norms" within human existence never mind various epochs, and a human reason for any rise is pure conjecture. Massive deforestation and urbanisation has impacted some microclimates (Mediteranean for eg) but its not insoluble.

What I do think is true is that supporting 7 billion people is very hard work, and every hurricane or earthquake becomes a "disaster" as it hits mor and more people living onmore and more marginal land.

Also, there isnoway that 7 billion people can consume fossil energy at EU,never mind US standards and for rhat reason alone I think research into renewable energy is critical. Sadly, wind and biofuels are only viable with massive subsidies so they are dead ends.

Global warming is happening and governments are making plans for it. The Canadian government are replacing the ice road truckers with airships as the 'season' is getting so short that they are no longer viable.

The outlying communities rely on supplies but the 'safe' season to cross is down to six weeks when it used to be 3 months.

skeptical science is largely a debating site and quite an interesting one at that.

BUT at least there is a debate on there, not just two sides slagging each other off.

I still can't understand people who are parents not being interested in whether there will be a viable planet for their kids to live on.

I know a lot of people on MN aren't parents, though.

The issue is whether global warming is the biggest thing our kids' generation will face. I think politica-economic depression and population driven resource conflicts are going to be a bigger issue, far sooner.

The planet will be just fine, its had larger species die-offs many times....humans, however may well not be.

No, Jajas, I am personally very concerned about other species.

I just can't understand why some people aren't concerned about any humans, or any animals, or plants, or anything.

It seems supremely unnatural to me if you have children.

Well, it's kind of a bit pointless bringing them up at all if you don't care what happens to them.

Climate change is a long game. Energy,water and food shortages are a next 2 decades problem, economic depression is a this decade problem and the political turmoil may well send my kids to war. Worrying about dodging bullets next decade trumps swimming through Westminster in 2100, IMO.

That's true if you're currently a grown-up with no kids.

If you're a kid, you'll last a bit longer.

Mine aren't going to war, either.

That's true if you're currently a grown-up with no kids. If you're a kid, you'll last a bit longer.

I think you will find its todays 10 year olds that wl be fighting the wars of the 2020's

Mine aren't going to war, either.

A lot of people thought that in 1933 too.....those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Lots of people refused to fight...in many wars.

You are absolutely right about the need to learn from history.

Like Whatmeworry, I don't think humans will destroy the planet, but I do think it very likely that there will come a time when the planet has a lot fewer humans on it. Presumably the intervening period will be extremely unpleasant.

I also grew up petrified of nuclear exchanges. Fear of the effects of nuclear warfare wasn't an illogical thing to feel, then or now. Scepticism of the things recommended as helpful seemed very logical too, then and now.

Fatalism is unfortunately where I am at the moment. I do some of the things I can but feel that there are just too many humans for these to have any worthwhile effect. For a start, I still use my computer a lot.

Fatalism is very depressing though, isn't it?

I agree that washing out yogurt pots is a fairly fruitless endeavour, but political campaigning isn't.

It's better than lying down and waiting for our species to die out, which seems an odd position for members of a species to take.

I am worried that my children could be forced to live in a subsistence economy if people like toptramp ever got in power. Really, toptramp? Can you not see how awful a life like that would be? There would be very little art, culture, education in such a system. Those things are made possible by the wealth created by industrialization and the leisure produced by division of labour. There would be a much higher risk of famine.

I think a lot of climate change angst is just anti-capitalism.

How do you account for David Cameron's espousal of the green agenda if it's all an anti-capitalist conspiracy?

Not to mention Zac Goldsmith?