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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

in finding it difficult to deal with my grandfather's inappropriate touching?

48 replies

sarahgoodenough · 12/12/2011 13:51

my elderly grandfather is partially sighted, he likes to 'get out' and needs a guide, really. his son takes him out 4 times a week. but i'm expected to take him out shopping and 'visit' 2/3 times a week. my grandfather is definately 'all there', in that he is not going senile or losing his marbles. he likes to touch me up though, and i have to be on guard for this. i've tried to get out of, or cut down on these visits, as i feel that my grandfather and grandmother are supported enough with all their family around them. however i'm made to very, very feel guilty by my grandparents if i dont spend hours and hours with them each week. the main thing that i made to feel is that i am leaving a partially sighted man in the lurch. there could be help available from the council for him, but thats not wanted, as i said before, he is taken out 4 times a week anyway by his son. he has three sons, their respective wives and numerous grandhildren. my grandparents have been lacking throughout their lives, all sorts of things went on. my grandfather is a bully of a person, among other things. and i feel that my dad, at least, 'survived' his so called upbringing to his great credit. so, to go back to the title of this message, i just find it difficult, that's all. its not something you can talk about, least of all among the family.

OP posts:

SinicalSanta · 12/12/2011 14:54

me too eatmedates

The only 'bright spot' is that he's physically infirm so he's not physically dangerous. He has to rely on guilt and shame and people not wanting to rock boats.

FreudianSlipper · 12/12/2011 14:58

the thing is if you tell him to stop and he does (which is unlikely as he thinks its ok to do what he is doing he has no thought on how you feel about it) it does not mean he will not stop doig the same to others. if you are the first to speak out about it which i understand is very difficult i am sure others will follow and also refuse to help out

it will hurt people because they do not want to face the truth but this is how abuse carries on. you have done nothing wrong and are doing nothing wrong by being honest and looking after yourself

TheRealTillyMinto · 12/12/2011 15:52

SarahGoodEnough dont let him hid behind his age. when i was 19, i worked in a factory & the old man cleaner used to stand behind me in the morning.... he seemed very distracted & i used to let him witter on... he made this really odd sound, like clicking his teeth. one day i turned around to see his hand coming out of his overall. the clicking sound stopped.

i turned back. the clicking...no....slapping sound started again. turned around and again his hand coming out if his overall.

this 70 yr old had stood behind me for about 12 weeks and tossed off every day. i went to see the owner of the factory who cared more about being taken to court by his old caretaker than dealing with the issue. even worse: he had done this to every women who worked there. the receptionist in her 50s/60s said 'you are so young, i never thought he would do it to you. i didnt think you needed warning. i never let him stand behind me.'

he had teenage grandaughters & to a man in his 70s, there cannot be much difference between a 19 yo and a teenager. about 10 women turned a blind eye so not to cause a fuss.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 12/12/2011 16:35

This kind of thing flourishes because people are too embarrased to say anything and skirt around the issue.

He is not suffering from dementia (which can cause this kind of behaviour) and has no excuse.

He is a pervert who is sexually assaulting you. I'll say that again - he is a pervert who is sexually assaulting you. Women are so conditioned to not make a fuss and the fact that it's a family member makes it your emotional response all the more complicated. Remove all that crap from your mind and focus on the basic facts.

When he touches you again don't move his hand and call him Grandfather. Say in a clear, loud voice, 'Take your hand off my breast! What do you think you are doing? I am your grandaughter!' etc. Confront the behaviour. You might need to practice saying 'NO!' loudly when you're alone, as it can be very difficult to find your voice when you're so shocked.

And I don't care how old he is. Remember that (except in cases of dementia, head injuries, possibly some strokes(?) etc) this kind of behaviour doesn't appear overnight. If he's doing this to you he probably did it to someone as a 30 year old.

MabelLucyAttwell · 12/12/2011 17:51

'Elderly' can mean any age but it doesn't excuse what amounts to assault although I can't find a description of what he does. In this case, there's an element of incest, too. Why not have a word with a Police Liaison Officer and ask for an opinion. You might be able to do it without giving names.

As another poster has said, it might be happening with other family members who are too scared proud or shy to say anything and what if it goes beyond your family?

RomanChristingle · 12/12/2011 19:47

Even if he did stop would you want to visit him? He would still give me the creeps if it was me. Just stop going there - you don't owe him anything after how he has behaved. I personally think you should also report his behaviour. If he is physically infirm he will likely not be seen as a threat and carers could be left alone with him.

JaneBirkin · 12/12/2011 19:56

Oh God this is so, so very sad.

OP - you poor thing, I'm so very sorry for you.

Please don't let this continue. It is really, really wrong and should never happen. I'm not surprised your mother is upset and angry, I wouldn't want my child's grandparent touching them sexually, whether they were grown up or not.

If you're certain he isn't becoming senile - I mean has he always been like this? then the best thing is to tell him you'll be having nothing more to do with him unless he stops trying to touch you.

In fact I wouldn't want to continue to see him anyway, if it were me but then I am very sensitive to being touched inappropriately as it's happened to me before and left me with some residual anger and trust issues.

I think inside you may well be rather angry too, but you're somehow not allowing yourself to realise that. What is stopping you from simply walking away from this situation? You have family support to stop it happening so make the most of that, and put a stop to it.

I am almost crying for you. Sorry, I don't mean to make you feel worse. But this is totally, totally unacceptable.

JaneBirkin · 12/12/2011 19:59

What I am trying to say is, what do you think he is feeling when he does this? He's not just a dotty old man who is going a bit doolally is he.

He is cognitively aware of who you are, he knows the usual boundaries and he knows it makes you uncomfortable. Yet he still does it./ Why?

Because he is a bully and he is very angry. You've done nothing to deserve this. He is angry generally and he is using his power to intimidate you sexually - not for the sexual thrill but for the power it gives him. He likes making you uncomfortable.

Thats the pattern with most men who do this. Sexual harrassment is rarely about sex, it's about making people squirm, and enjoying it.

You're letting him, and you don't have to.

rupert1 · 12/12/2011 20:20

Life is to short for you to be stressed every time you have to take him out. try and be firm and tell him you will only take him out on a lead with no personal contact. To many pepole live to close to relatives and spend to much time with them.Hopefully using a lead should do the trick, Also i think his walkies time should be reduced,maybe sit him down and tell him over a cup of coffee just to soften it a bit.You cannot let this horrible man stress you out

PigletJohn · 12/12/2011 20:42

I have a feeling that if you mention it to other members of the family some of them will already now but have never mentioned it.

Somebody's got to, sooner or later.

Regrettably there will probably be others who refuse to believe it (even if they know it's true)

runningwilde · 12/12/2011 21:00

You should tell your dad about this. Is there more to this? Was there touching when you were younger? Do NOT excuse his behaviour because he is old, please don't do that

FruitShootsSantaandLeaves · 12/12/2011 21:02

Walk away

sometimes life isn't that simple

JaneBirkin · 12/12/2011 21:05

No, I realise that or she would perhaps already have done so. Or perhaps no one has suggested it before...we don't know.

FabbyChic · 12/12/2011 21:06

I lived with my nan at aged 17, it was hot she was at work, I put a bikini on, her husband was old, not like a step grandad though, he made lude comments about my boobs and tried to touch them.

I told my nan and moved out to be homeless that day.

She didn't speak to me again until she was in hospital with two weeks to live.

I done the right thing though.

No one has the right to touch you, no one has the right to make you feel uncomfortable.

You need to tell him stop it or you need to stop doing things for him, if you don't he will consider it acceptable because you suffer in silence.

Tell him if he does it again you will tell someone.

RomanChristingle · 12/12/2011 21:07

It's obviously not that simple or the op wouldn't have put up with the behaviour twice. What is stopping you from cutting contact op? You have the support of your mum at least.

olgaga · 12/12/2011 21:19

I understand why you've got to the end of your tether about this. It's horrible. I'm not surprised you don't feel you can "help" him again.

You can, as you suggest, simply be "too busy". But at some point, for your own peace of mind, I think you should speak to your dad about it. Think about this. You and your mum worrying, agonising about it. Is your grandfather worried? Losing sleep over it? No. I gather you want to protect your dad, or fear the consequences if he knew. I have to say, that's precisely how lifelong abusers get away with it.

I note you say he has been "inappropriate with others". It makes me wonder how many young girls and women he has made to suffer over the years.

I think you should tell your dad. Does this man have other younger female grandchildren/great grandchildren? If so they might be suffering exactly what you're suffering. Also in silence.

BratinghamPalace · 12/12/2011 22:06

Fuck him. Next times he touches you stand your ground and say to him in a quiet firm voice "you know what? Next time you do that I am going to tell my dad. And I am going to say to him - Dad, it might be time to consider a home for Grandpa, he is going a bit senile I think, he keeps trying to grope me." He is old - use the threat of a home against him. And ONLY visit in the company of others.
Good luck and remember - he is the fucker, you are not doing anything wrong.

Rhinestone · 12/12/2011 22:21

OP, I know this is difficult to contemplate but the best thing to do is call the police and press charges against him.

Do you feel ready to do that?

marriedandwreathedinholly · 12/12/2011 22:23

The saddest thing of all is that you feel you have to ask if you should tell anyone about this or stop helping him out. Of course you should. There is no need you have to do anything you don't want to do or anything you feel uncomfortable about. The only person who can make you feel guilty and who matters is you.

It's terribly easy to say "just tell him you won't be going again because he has done x, y and z" and also terribly easy to say "tell your family what he's really like" but terribly hard to do it because you care what everyone will think of you. They may just think - goodness he did that to x, and to y, and to z, and nobody liked it but nobody had the courage to stand up to him. At the end of the day, you are the one that is putting up with unpleasantness and you are the one who has to continue whether it should continue.

Who else has he done this to and why are you the only female who visits him alone.

Lucy88 · 12/12/2011 22:29

He might be your Granddad, but I think the time has come for you to be firm and tell him to F**k off. Ok, maybe not those exact words (although they would be the ones I would use).

Next time he touches you, you need to slap his hand and say 'Keep your hands to yourself - if you touch me there again, I will not be coming to see you'.

skybluepearl · 12/12/2011 23:32

don't see him on your own or just don't see him?

demetersdaughter · 12/12/2011 23:37

You really don't have to protect his reputation or his feelings you know?
Don't bother with visiting him anymore and tell him and your family why.
If they don't like it.
Fuck em forget them.
I hope you get it sorted and good luck OP.

griphook · 12/12/2011 23:57

Hi sarah, I have a bit of experience of this with an uncle, to many cuddles and comments ifyswimbut no not as full on as yours. Once I was old enough I choose not to see him and didn't see him for the 10 years before he died. Caused a few prolems with his side of the family, and didn't see my nan for a long time, and while it's sad that it caused a rift it couldn't go on. Please stop seeing him now. he has know right to dothis to you, but more importantly you say he has done this to others, so had my uncle and it caused me a lot of resentment that no one had said anything to him before.

you have no reason to feel guilty

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