To think maintence payments should be cal

[bytheMoonlight]

Before you flame me, please read! I am fully willing to accept IABU if this is the case but please read before jumping to conclusions!

If a lone parent income is means tested and then he/she is given benefits to bring their income up to an acceptable level, why should that income then be topped up with extra money (that isn't means tested) from maintenance? A couple on a low income, who income is means tested an is in receipt of similar benefits wouldn't be able to have their income topped up this way.

Surely all the income should be calculated for means testing? A couple on a low income, who income is means tested an is in receipt of similar benefits wouldn't be able to have their income topped up this way.

I understand the previous problems faced by lone parents under the old system, where the NRP didn't pay the maintenance and the RP was then short of money as the benefits had already been calculated as if they were too receive it and agree this is a big flaw in the system.

I think the maintenance should be calculated so the lone parent receives means tested benefits, based on all income including maintenance. The maintenance payment and the benefits should be paid by the government, thus guaranteeing the RP receives the required amount of money each week.

Then it is up to the state to chase the NRP for the money they owe the state (not the RP). I'm sure if the NRP owed a government department money (rather than an individual) there would be far better success rates in receiving the money owed.

AIBU?

niceguy2, there are some very decent people working within the CSA (in particular Margaret who works in the debt dept!) they just can't do a lot about the awful system they have to work with.

But, niceguy - it's NOT an incentive to the RP if they are paying 7-12% of £5 a week. Or nothing. And if the NRP is non-compliant, then the £100 each annual charge can be re-levied every time they have to try to re-chase. It also isn't much of an incentive to someone who left a relationship because of physical, emotional or financial abuse.

And as for CMEC being any tougher - I don't doubt your summation of the likelyhood of it actually working. Though it WILL help that they will have real-time access to the HMRC computers and staff - that was the REASON for putting them in the same office block apparently.

Won't help Self-employed NRP to pay though - it will still be all-too easy for them to divert their income to their new spouses etc. I highly doubt even CMEC will have the teeth to deal with that.

And the small cut DOES NOT guarantee regular payment, any more than you get now, UNLESS CMEC takes MUCH tougher action on non-compliant NRP's.

None of the Child Maintenance systems will work until there are VERY harsh punishments for non-payment. Akin to the Sanctions on what will be UC. If the HMRC had the power to take out maintenance payments at the same time as they dealt with PAYE, it would be impossible for any employee to evade paying. That just leaves the SE. Don't ask me how to fix THAT one though!

Niceguy 2 so how much benefit would only be reduced by maintenance? E.g. single parent gets aprox £120 a week IS but received £100 a week maintenance from ex, are you suggesting that £100 be deducted from IS? Because as far as i am concerned that would be ExP paying for child and mother? That doesn't seem right.

This was another of the problems with the 'old' system rootietootie.

Some NRP's found that the mother's benefit's were being reduced in line with how much maintenance she was receiving, so effectively the NRP was supporting the mother of his child as well as the child, when AFAIC his responsibility in most cases is only to provide for the child.

YY - NONE of the maintenance should be taken from the benefits paid for the MOTHER. Maybe from the Child Tax Credits - but if it is taken from the Income Support, then surely that would class as SPOUSAL maintenance?

I agree with you OP.

"If you bother to google, you would find reams of research backing up the fact that married biological parents in a stable reationship generally have happier healthier, better behaved, higher achieving children.This is very relevant to the debate about how the tax system should be structured"

There's a key word in there. a VERY key word

stable

take out the stable and you're going to have mucho fucked up kids (probably) wheer as you you put

"a single parent in a happy, safe, loving home" in it's place you'll get the same result........

and I have no idea what either of them has to do with how the tax system is structured.

personally I wouldn't be so sure that the HMRC being in charge and therefore 'more scary' would make a difference. exH still owes them from over paid TC's (I've paid my share eons ago and so they leave me alone now)..........they're still waiting, he's still avoiding.........probably end up in court with a CCJ or whatever they give for non paying back money back to the government.......which of course will cost money.......probably more than he owes, so he'll probably be asked to pay that too, oh but wait, he won't pay that either.........

Sadly I think the men that don't give a shit now, and avoid paying by some means or other (working cash in hand/not declaring full earning, staying on the dole, pissing off out of the country etc) would continue to do that regardless of who was chasing them for the money.

HuntyCat Seems to me that we're just going back to the old days where the mother's IS was reduced by how much maintenance she recd from the NRP...before tax credits were introduced and IS was made up of the adult element and the child element, and NRP's found in some cases, they were indeed supporting the RP's of their DC too.

Just goes to show how far we've really come.

Huntycat, if maintenance was deducted just from CTC, then surely it would have to be everyone receiving CTC, not just those not in work? And I still dont think this is right.

Littlemiss

I'm of the age to remember when IS was paid as one benefit first time around as single parent and think you hot to keep the first £20 . The then CSa closed the case even though I gave addresses where working and living . Not had penny for ds1 and ds2 ( now,17 and15) even though he owns business and brought a house had couple more dc

For dd and ds3 I get the maximum of £10 fortnight as their dad gave up his job now on benefits ~ though have to say I did nit realise that it was all disregarded and can see why jn some cases where IRS reicvied regulary it would be unfair and those that say that they could not mange with out loosing the Matinance( talking those with proven record of paying not the hit and miss payers ) on tol of their full benefits then would need to point out many if us have to mange without the extra top up

and. Yes maybe part of that is jealousy I admit it

Must admit needs to be fairer system before they do that a way where the parent is guaranteed the income , taken straight from the pay-packet

BytheMoonlight. Let me be clear, I'm sure there are hardworking people in the CSA. Individually people cannot be blamed. The entire system is flawed, hence the reboot. But let's face it, government IT systems are almost always a complete shambles. In addition, using the same staff means they'll carry over the same mentality/hangups they've developed and chances are, they won't have the oomph & killer attitude I think they need to get cracking on errant NRP's.

Hunty, my point is that IF CMEC is tough and people start to realise they cannot easily dodge them like the CSA then over time irresponsible NRP's will realise it's easier to cough up regularly than get hammered by CMEC and end up paying more.

On balance I don't like the idea that their services will be charged for but if that's the only way to get decent service then perhaps that's the only way to go. I mean right now many many people are not getting any payment because the CSA is a mess. If by paying £100 they get efficient service and their ex is nailed to the wall for the maintenance then I think that's a price worth paying.

HOWEVER.....this all hinges on CMEC being the efficient wolf who ruthlessly chases down uncooperative ex's. Like I say....i have my doubts.....but time will tell.