To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

[RainbowSheep]

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

If a person has a genuine understanding of what it means to be tory, and STILL chooses to vote for them then yes, I do think they must be a bit thick (as well as grabby, selfish and deluded)

I've never voted Tory - but if there was a general election tomorrow I would.

The only party supporters who are absolutely 100% thick as mince - and there's simply no arguing with it - are the BNP ones.

Yes, it does.

I'm with BIWI and all the other frothing lefties.

doesn't anyone else see the irony in statements such as 'anyone who votes tory couldn't possibly be other than stupid or selfish, tories lack empathy'?

i man, empathy is the ability to place yourself into someone elses shoes, and work your way round their thoughts and feelings. if your mind is so closed you only populate the other persons head with negative things, that's a lack of empathy.

I'm a Tory. We are wealthy enough to have skiing holidays and ponies and a nice house. We also paid over 100K in tax last year.

You know what, I think that to suggest we give up that skiing holiday on top of the tax we pay is unreasonable, unfair and is never gonna happen.

When you pay that amount of tax, you get to decide whether you ski or donate, until then be bloody thankful that enough of us do pay.

I know kind and generous Tories and kind and generous lefties. I also knwo cunts form both political sides.

How can Tories be both rich and thick? Surely you don't get rich by being thick? Or are you genuinely suggesting those in third generation sink estate poverty voting Labour are all undiscovered geniuses?

Rainbow you ask how uni lecturers can suggest students protest against fees? Probably because they know many of their bright students will be prohibited from further studying due to cost, not ability. Incidentally they don't earn huge amounts. If they were doing some of the same research and consulting in the private sector they would earn much more.

How many of the Tories made good mentioned on this thread would have done so if it hadn't been for the welfare state that enabled such social mobility? Once it's gone, it's gone. We can never afford to get it back.

You say you're ok now but you might not be for much longer. Have a look here: toomanycuts.blogspot.com

I think when you have the likes of Goldman Sachs and Vodaphone legally evading millions in tax and people who live in poverty or are disabled being targeted it is wrong.

Tory supporters aren't stupid. Many are starting to think things have gone too far.

I'm a Tory and have a PhD scholarship. Can't be that thick.

I despise champagne socialism and am particularly poor. It irritates me wildly when people think all Tories are rich. We are not. Conservatives are not uncaring about others they just have different views about how to give people opportunities and are realistic about the economy.

There was greater social mobility under Thatcher than now after 13 years of Labour.

I wonder what percentage of your total income is spent on tax and NI Harry? It would be interesting to compare it with those on other incomes (not just low).

I think giving a big chunk of a lot is probably easier than giving a big chunk of not much.

But, hey I'm a champagne socialist. I know that. I also know that were it not for my and dh's health and the fact we don't have caring responsibilities our life is vastly easier than others.

That wasn't social mobility, takingbackmonday, that was a political pyramid scheme.

hmmm

Relating to OPs original point - my father's from a v v v working class, Northern background and is Thatcher's biggest fan. He's a lifelong Tory and anything anti-cuts has him frothing. He did well out of grammar school etc and worked very hard and all that. I have a plethora of friends who are rampant champagnesocialists left wingers despite us all going to a Surrey private school. I don't know what that says regarding intelligence but it does put the 'all Tories are rich and self interested' point out the window. Most of the Tories I know are far from the Tory toff image Labour seemed intent on projecting (think Eddie Timpson's election, Labour's hideous tactics, Crewe and Nantwich)

RainbowSheep: In my experience, people who only ever surround themselves with people who agree with them are usually not used to having their views challenged, and often respond with anger or derision when they encounter opposing views simply because they are no good at arguing their case. So if it's any consolation, your uncle's outburst reflects more on his narrow-mindness and inability to enter into debate then it does on anything to do with you.

katefrothers 50%, give or take.

Yours?

And I have an Oxbridge degree as does DH so not that thick, but still, thicker than all those Labour voters on Jezza, probably.

I think giving a big chunk of a lot is probably easier than giving a big chunk of not much.

I agree with this and it is the working poor with whom I have the most sympathy.

Which is why so many thick, nasty Tories were horrified when Gordy abolished the 10% tax rate.

Harry - the Jeremy Kyle people you describe won't vote at all.
half the country doesn't vote at general elections

Just working mine out now Harry. I didn't pay any tax last year (part SAHM after redundancy from private sector job, part full time student) but I'll work out my household percentage as dh was working. As I said, we're definitely not poor but both socialists and live in London borough (so high costs - but that's our choice. Thank god we still have the luxury of having one!).

It was about 30.5% we paid in tax and NI last year as a household for an income of approx £60,000 leaving us £41,700 or £20,850 each.

So you must have a combined household income of about £250,000 and your tax and NI contribution is roughly 44% of your total income. Leaving you £140,000 or £70,000 each.

£14,000 income pays about 17% in tax and NI leaving £11,620

£18,000 income pays about 20% in tax and NI leaving £14,400

£25,0000 income pays about 23% in tax and NI leaving £19,250

£30,000 income pays about 25% in tax and NI leaving £22,500

£99,000 income pays about 35% in tax and NI leaving £64,350

£500,000 income pays about 47% in tax an NI leaving £265,000

Yes I also have a lot of sympathy with the working poor. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is struggling and doing their best.

I am grateful I have my health, my education and my DS is NT will be able to go to school and I won't need to care for him for the rest of my/his life.

I also know that this could all change tomorrow. It only takes an accident of fate or some misfortune to put me and my family in a precarious situation. It has happened to others, it could happen to me.

Yabu, yawn.

This is a very interesting question. I think the main problem with both conservative views and Conservative politics is that both of these positions deny the complexity of real societies. So it is really easy to say 'tougher prison sentences' - it sounds nice, it makes us feel tough, it satisfies a desire for vengeance. Doesn't bloody work, costs the taxpayer a fortune - but that's the sort of factual detail that both conservatives and Conservatives like to ignore.

Also, liberal parenting e.g. not setting tight boundaries for children is not automatically associated with social liberalism. Meaning I don't let my kids eat sweets, steal or swear and I'm a stickler for homework, but I don't care if my kids choose to have boyfriends or girlfriends.

The main reason I think it is a little unintelligent to vote Conservative is because their policies tend to bring about a disbenefit to the majority of people in the country. For example, more people out of work + fewer youth workers = more crime = higher insurance premiums + lower quality of life for us.

There are people who should vote Tory. They are wealthy people who don't need to worry about the general health of society because they can afford to insulate themselves from the worst of it. The rest of us would do well to stick together a little more.

First class degree thanks - never voted for anyone else.
One of the things I find utterly perplexing about many people on the left, that they are so convinced they are right, they prefer to hurl insults at people with different opinions rather than combatting with reasoning.
Blair and Mandelson - not particularly likeable (any more) but had the intelligence to realise that insult, invective and negative politics do not win elections these days, and to head for the middle ground. A further reason why D Miliband is far more persuasive than his utterly hopeless brother.
Which suits me.

Doh, I meant yanbu.

What bollocks, really!

Labour abolished the 10% tax rate hitting the poorest workers.
Labour produced a welfare state so bloated it has trapped millions and widened immigration so that many jobs the unskilled could have done are now being done by hardworking immigrants.
Labour almost bankrupted us - there is no more money, remember!

Tories took away CB and TC for the better off.
Tories introduced the pupil premium so schools in deprived areas are now considerably better funded than those in leafy suburbs.

But don't let any of those insignificant facts get in the way of the All Tories Are Evil frothing!

allohora - speaking as someone who doesn't really buy into 'left' v 'right' I think it is fair to say there are people from every party/perspective who hurl insults rather than reasoning.

Wealthy people who don't need to worry about the general health of society because they can afford to insulate themselves from the worst of it. The rest of us would do well to stick together a little more.

This is true.