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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

755 replies

RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 19:28

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

OP posts:
ElaineReese · 15/12/2011 13:52

.... to smash up restaurants?

You know that's what they do, right?

claig · 15/12/2011 13:54

Yes I know that they are a bunch of entitled Hooray Henrys who sometimes do things like that.

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 13:55

It's OK when they smash up restaurants, Elaine. When the rioters do it, they're scummy scum, when the Bullingdon do it, it's highjinks and japes.

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 13:55

If you're a floating voter, claig, why are you defending the Tories so stridently? Surely you have no stake in this argument really?

ElaineReese · 15/12/2011 13:58

You have to be the son of nobility or very, very wealthy to be invited - Blair, for all his failings, was neither.

claig · 15/12/2011 13:59

I have no stake in this argument. However, at the moment I am not floating.
I just object to people calling millions of Tory voters thick and lacking in empathy, just as iwould do if it was said about LibDem voters or Labour voters. I think it is against real political debate and disrespectful of millions of voters.

claig · 15/12/2011 14:01

'You have to be the son of nobility or very, very wealthy to be invited - Blair, for all his failings, was neither.'

Agree, Blair could never get in. I think you also have to go to Eton, but I'm not sure.

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 14:02

And yet here we are debating away. So it's not really been stifled too much, has it, the old political debate?

claig · 15/12/2011 14:04

I agree. That's why I joined the debate.

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 14:04

I've often wondered, and perhaps a Tory can enlighten me: does it piss you off, if you are normal and not mega-minted, that you can't access things that other people access? I mean, if you can't be in the Bullingdon club because you're not rich and not a man, doesn't that bother you on any level?

claig · 15/12/2011 14:09

It doesn't bother me, because that is life. It doesn't bother me that Tony Blair earns millions or that Rooney earns millions. Money is not what life is all about. I am not envious of any of them at all.

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 14:21

I wasn't talking about money. I was talking about not being allowed membership to certain institutions.

Shrugging your shoulders and saying "that's life" is hardly going to get us anywhere, is it? 100 years ago, the Suffragettes didn't shrug their shoulders and go "oh well, c'est la vie".

claig · 15/12/2011 14:27

I don't care if they join the Bullingdon Club or a Rugby Club. I don't think it affects the rest of us.

However, yes I am all for a meritocracy and eqiual access to educational institutions based on academic merit. I don't believe that jobs should be based on which club you are a member of or what school you went to. So equal rights and equal opportunities are vital. But if some Hoorays want to smash up their dorm rooms or restaurants or some rugby players want to go on booze-filled benders, then I think "that's life".

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 14:31

The Bullingdon club was an example. I meant in general. Sorry, I thought that was clear.

If you believe in meritocracy, wow, voting for the Tories. That makes ZERO sense.

allthatglittersisnotgold · 15/12/2011 14:34

Bah! Yellowsubmarine I didn't feel sorry for this specific "dog". I have wanted to adopt a rescue dog for years, but could only do it now I have my own property. I've always had a strong empathy for animals. Stupid point to say that it is easy to feel empathy for things under your nose. I made a concious decision on this one. Anyway I digress.

allthatglittersisnotgold · 15/12/2011 14:34

ha ha i meant yellow raincoat...conditioned to put submarine after yellow!

claig · 15/12/2011 14:39

Yes I am against secretive clubs that allocate privilege based on membership and that exclude ordinary people who are not members of the club.

Meritocracy is what the Tories are all about. Grammar schools are meritocratic and choose the best candidates based on academic selection. I believe that there are lots of poor children who are much cleverer than Bullingdon members and in a meritocratic society they should get free access to educational institutions that can challenge those of the Bullingdonians.

I believe in letting talent rise to the top and that's what Tories like Thatcher believed too. I believe in social mobility, which is why I think it is shocking that social mobility declined more under Labour than under Thatcher.

ElaineReese · 15/12/2011 14:44

What do you believe should happen to the 'non-talent'?

yellowraincoat · 15/12/2011 14:46

Why is it stupid? I thought you Tories were against saying we were thick?

Claig, I don't even know where to start. If talent rises to the top, why is it that I, top of my year group from age 5 - 17, Russell Group-educated, am working part time on less than 12K a year?

claig · 15/12/2011 14:49

'Why is it stupid?'

Why is what stupid?

claig · 15/12/2011 14:52

'What do you believe should happen to the 'non-talent'?'

I think there should be academic hot-house schools for the most academic and sporting hot-house schools for the most sporting and musical hot-house schools for the most musical and artistic and drama hot-house schools for teh most artistic etc., all paid for by the state.

For everybody else, I think there shoudl be excellent schools that are not hot houses in specific fields, but are more generalist.

allthatglittersisnotgold · 15/12/2011 14:55

Stupid point, not inherently stupid person. I think it was unfair to assume I felt sorry for a dog becaue I happened upon it. It did not happen by accident the whole adoption has been planned for years.

Perhaps you are talented, but I thought earlier you mentioned you had depression and a personality disorder. Now this is not your fault, and it is not the tories fault, but maybe the reason you haven't unlocked your full potential. There are a range of therapies available on the NHS and as I mentioned before I have used their services for just this, and perhaps I am lucky but I have a very kind and understanding GP.

Would you be happier working from home? Russell Group educated, you will certainly have talents to "offer" I feel like you perhaps you need to figure out personally how you can offer it. You sound far too bitter against others I'm afraid. I think I will make this my last post on this topic, as we could go round in circles forever.

ElaineReese · 15/12/2011 14:55

Ah, ok. So every child with any sort of talent (which is evident at 11) goes to a specialist school to nurture that talent, whether it's academia, sport, music, art or drama.

And then you have a school for talentless children as well, which is also excellent.

Words fail me.

claig · 15/12/2011 14:58

I believe in selection at some age, maybe not 11, maybe 13 like many private schools do.

I don't believe the other children are 'talentless', just not as talented as Rooney at football.

ElaineReese · 15/12/2011 14:59

But anyone with an obvious marked talent in anything will go to a different school? And anyone who shows no strong aptitude in anything will go to the Other school?