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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that the Amish lifestyle might not be such a bad thing?

64 replies

suebfg · 08/12/2011 21:58

Just watching the series on Channel 4 - maybe we can learn a thing or two from them?

OP posts:
veryconfusedatthemoment · 08/12/2011 23:33

It seems to me that they try to keep their young close to the community by totally rejecting proper education. Many Amish youth leave school at 14 and I am really not sure about the status of women in the community.

[I lived in the States for quite a long time (am UK born and bred) and visited some of the Amish communities. It really was in hindsight quite disturbing - even 20 years on I find some of the hypocrisy very disturbing. There are many similar communities in the states so it's not just the Amish...)

rosieposey · 08/12/2011 23:34

The thing is that we have a choice (in a way) if we want to leave the rat race and live that sort of self sufficient life but it seems that Amish females are indoctrinated from an early age to be subservient and that there aren't really any choices left open for them once they leave school at such a young age.

I dont know for sure but i was under the impression from the Documentary that i watched that 'rumspringa' was only an option for the boys?

Feminine · 08/12/2011 23:43

Girls can 'rumspinga" also.

In fact I know a few girls that did ,and then returned to the 'fold'

One girl had really expensive designer clothes , a facebook, typical teenage things but sometimes wore traditional clothes.Last thing I heard, she had also returned forever.

They leave at 8th grade (14) they have no way completed enough education.

They are also very lazy when it comes to little children and farming :( My DH works with someone who also volunteers as a paramedic ...not a week goes by without him being called to another (sometimes fatal) accident on a farm.

The buggies are regularly in collisions with cars...its only recently they have put lights on them...as they are black you can imagine how dangerous it is at night.

BertieBotts · 08/12/2011 23:54

I think that it looks very idyllic but imagine if you were in a DV situation? What if you (or one of your DC) were growing up and realised you were gay? I saw the previous C4 documentary (Am assuming this is a new one? In the one I saw there were girls and boys on rumspringa and it was told through the voice of one of the girls.) and it did seem very prescriptive in terms of male/female roles and they routinely use physical discipline on children as well.

I thought it was quite interesting to see how shocked they were at many aspects of our culture, which we perhaps take for granted, just interesting as an outside view is hard to find, but I don't think that means that the Amish culture is perfect in comparison. There are flaws in every community, I'd have thought. I'd much rather live in one where we are broadly free to live as we wish rather than some prescriptive way with not much leeway if you don't happen to fit in.

BertieBotts · 08/12/2011 23:55

Hmm interesting link rosie Shock

BertieBotts · 08/12/2011 23:57

The "discipline" sounds similar to that creepy book written by the devout Christian couple.

ZZZenAgain · 09/12/2011 00:26

well, they are well-spoken pleasant teenagers, they accept people, try to get along with others. Nothing to dislike about them but I am not sure what it is like living in an Amish community. Is it just me, or do they have a strange intonation sometimes as if English was a foreign language for them?

graceinabundance · 09/12/2011 00:31

what book by devout christian people? out of interest

Feminine · 09/12/2011 00:38

ZZZ english is a second language for them.

Most don't start learning it till 5/6 and even then its not spoken at home.

BertieBotts · 09/12/2011 00:41

I can never remember the authors' names - Pierce? Peace? Something like that. But it's called "To train up a child" and you can read the entire disturbing thing online if you so wish.

It was in the news a few months back because although the "discipline" described in the book is illegal in the UK, Amazon UK are still selling it under the premise that they don't believe in book censorship.

aldiwhore · 09/12/2011 03:20

I'm rather attracted to the weaving of rugs (to sell at vast profit) but couldn't do with the fashion or the lack of gin o'clock.

I'm sure many people in many places are happy and have some points, doesn't make it the right way for all though.

Morloth · 09/12/2011 03:50

I think as long as people are not breaking any laws they should be able to live how they choose and raise thru children how they wish.

A life without technology is not for me but I am sure there are plenty of people who wouldnt want to live as I do.

I have been toying with swinging by an Amish community when we are in the US, but I am not sure if it isn't a bit rude to go and 'look' at people! Though I am a sucker for quilts.

aldiwhore · 09/12/2011 03:54

Pick me up one whilke you're there morloth apparantly they don't mind being stared at if you're buying something. That's the only thing I find uncomfortable.

I'm more of a 'buy my shit but don't look at me' type of person (and therefore not very profitable).

CheerfulYank · 09/12/2011 04:09

I've been through their communities when I was little. They were always kind to me.

It seems that girl's parents are not Amish anymore either? Xmas Confused

nursenic · 09/12/2011 04:34

If visiting the regions where Amish reside, it is considered rude to photograph them-they will not approve of this.
Some Mennonites living nearby had daughters who worked in local stores-they seemed a little more connected with the outside world and comfortably talked about their lifestyle.

Amish rarely cooperate with local law enforcement preferring to keep things 'in house'. This makes dealing with the rise in hate crimes very difficult.

i have always believed that from extremity comes moderation. They will not be able to isolate themselves so effectively for much longer. The outside Englischer world is becoming harder and harder to avoid.

FellatioNelson · 09/12/2011 04:45

Communities like this fascinate me. I read a couple of books on the Amish about 15 years ago. I agree - there are aspects of their lifestyle that seem appealing; simple, clear-cut, wholkesome. But people are people with the same flaws and deisres the world over, and I'm learning now, living in a supposedly very conservative Muslim Arab country that just because something appears to happen on the outside, and is written in the rule book, doesn't mean all of them actually adhere to their own rules.

It strikes me from things said on this thread that the Amish are not so different in certain behaviours to our own gyspies and travellers. An obsessive need to keep outsiders away and a rejection of many of the values of the wider community on the one hand, but a hypocritical willingness to avail themselves of certain things they have realised are actually quite handy, even though they are not strictly kosher as it were.

nursenic · 09/12/2011 04:55

FellatioNelson

Perhaps true of all inwardly tuned communities to a degree.....?

katkitya · 09/12/2011 05:34

Damn,I forgot to plus it!! The remind me of the ultra orthodox Jewish community in some ways. It's always abit worrying when they don't want any outside interference at all. DV is the first thing that springs to mind, amongst others.

FellatioNelson · 09/12/2011 05:44

Yes, I do think so. It's funny because I am living in a very oil and gas rich gulf state that on the one hand is very sophisticated - the elite families/clans are all highly educated, worldly etc, and yet because the country is still very new in terms of development and infrastructure I find that many, many aspects of their culture are again very similar to what we would expect from gypsy and traveller cultures back home. I suppose it comes from being descended (not very many generations ago) from bedouin tribespeople - feudal, insular, patriarchal, always on the move, etc.

For example, despite the fact that they are obsessed with mobile phones, even now they do not like to communicate through email, and they won't be governed by the clock or the calendar - the way to get business done is in the here and now, face to face, spoken not written, when the fancy takes them and not necessarily when you thought you had scheduled an appointment. They have no concept of having inconvenienced anyone by being this way. Their children have a terrible school attendence record - if they fancy staying off school or work for a few days or weeks on a whim, they just do it! No explanation, no apologies. They are beholden to no-one.

The other things are a completely cavalier attitude to things like driving safety - I've yet to see a single non-Western toddler or child in a car seat out here. they just scramble all over the car like it's a ball pond. and literally sit on the dashboard quite often. And the death rate among local youths and young men on the roads is absolutely appalling. just like with Travellers. But they put their safety in the hands of God and fate. Which would be fine, but as they drive like total lunatics God really has his work cut out. Hmm

And the habit of making your home like a ostentatious palace, all gold and sparkly and new and shiny on the inside, but then the area immediately outside your gate is a rubbish tip. I am starting to realise that this is typical of cultures where traditionally they would always be packing up and moving on. Keep the stuff you carry with you tidy and clean, and let someone else worry about what you don't want/need. Fine when all you were leaving behind was some human waste, some scraps of firewood and a cooked goat carcass in the middle of the desert or the forest (in the case of gypsies in Europe) but these days, not so good....

Anyway - I digress. Sorry, back to the Amish. But my point was about how/when these insular cultures and communities are suddenly made to collide with the rest of us, and how there is a clash of values/expectations.

lljkk · 09/12/2011 06:24

You shouldn't delete msgs Feminine, you haven't really said anything.

FellatioNelson · 09/12/2011 07:44

I agree - you are not insulting anyone or outing anyone specific. It's interesting to hear things from people who actually know stuff first hand, rather than just conjecture and stereotyping.

ithaka · 09/12/2011 08:04

I find it interesting some posters are attracted to the idea of the Amish lifestyle. I have no issues with anyone living how they wish, but on a personal level I cannot see the attraction of living like the Amish at all.

I love to work hard, play with my children and horses, get dressed up to the nines and party. I like fun and frivolity. The old hairshirt, no adornment lifestyle sounds utterly grim to me.

Takes all sorts.

cory · 09/12/2011 08:30

Nothing to stop the rest of us from aspiring to a simple lifestyle if we want to, without committing ourselves to a patriarchal culture with little freedom.

Nothing stops me from making bonnets, does it? No overseer checking that I watch enough television or spend enough in the sales? I don't need a bearded patriarch to tell me how to run my life.

TheLastChocolate · 09/12/2011 08:57

Do they live near hospitals/ doctors?

I'm curious to know what would happen if there was a bit accident - would they go to hospital? What are their views on blood treatments after big accidents or operations?

Bit of a random thing for me to wonder about, but it came into my mind as I was reading the thread.

FellatioNelson · 09/12/2011 09:04

But in a way I think it is the very strict rules that make it appealing, in a weird way. Eveyone knows their place, and their destiny and it releases them from the pressure of a world of choices and decisions, and wondering whether they will ever make it as anyone clever or special. or whether they will just sink under the weight of it all.

I know I'm completely over-simplifying it, but I can imagine that is the attraction to people who sometimes find modern day pressures overwhelming.

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