Parent unfriendly

[Lehman]

I am a new mum and I'm increasingly surprised by the substandard facilities for baby change and feeding - and, I suppose, the lack of baby friendliness generally. Perhaps I am being unreasonable or expecting too much but I am really fed up with filthy and smelly baby change facilities which many places, even quite reputable stores, shopping centres or restaurants have.

I am out and about quite a bit with my baby and i just can't understand why they get away with it. I was in bluewater shopping mall recently and the baby change facility was revolting. They provided a chair for feeding but it didn't have a seat cushion so you had to sit on the springs- it was also positioned next to a stinking nappy bin. Is there a directory for baby friendly places? I have found many places which say they are but when you get there it's really not the case.

I am starting to get the feeling that once you have a baby you become a bit of a second class citizen, I have had busses drive off as I've tried to get in the back doors, been turned away from restaurants operating a 'two pram' policy and find so many places that don't have a lifts or decent facilities. Yes I'm having a rant ....sorry.

It's probably an 'age' thing but I think we've never been more baby friendly than we are now.

Buggies allowed on buses without having to fold them
Parent and baby changing/feeding rooms
Parent and child parking spaces
Shopping centres providing little cars to push your kids around in
Shopping centres with creches

I'm 42 and none of that was available when I had my kids

I think there are recommendations somewhere here on Mumsnet... do a search...

Yes, places can be difficult - I lived abroad with DD1 and believe me it was worse, we have it good in comparison to some countries but frankly it is still mediocre at best. I always took my own nappy changing mat etc. and some disinfectant spray and was probably a bit anal about it all.

From my own experience Jamie's Italian was really good/welcoming for children (the one in Oxford is anyway). Toilets lovely and clean and even had spare Pampers in various sizes in case you ran out (I was VERY impressed by that, even though DD age 4 has been potty trained for a few years).

When you find the places that ARE good they are worth gold dust.

Also nothing wrong with writing to e.g. Blue Water and complaining suggesting amendments to their facilities.

I see what you are saying, but try taking a disabled person to the so-called "facilities".

It's frankly insulting in some places.

It's not the baby in those last situations, is it. It's the pram. Drag a large piece of luggage around with you all the time and yes you'll have trouble you didn't have before.

I have to say I rarely used any specific baby facilities. I think in comparison to the way it was just a few years ago it's much better. And of course prior to that in many cases there were no facilities at all.

If you find a specific issue like a broken chair, I'd bring it to the attention of the store concerned and be on my way.

I don't know why this is in IABU though. YABabitU, though, HTH.

I'm surprised at bluewater
It prides itself on being family friendly

Bluewater is devil spawn .... I hate the place with a passion. Frankly you must be insane to go there before next February!

Sorry - right baby changing facilities. There are some good ones and some minging ones. Depending on your drive, change baby before going to Bluewater/change on backseat of car if you've had a longish drive.

I'm still struggling with the concept of baby and shopping - let lone Bluewater shudder heinous place. I live 9 miles away and I've only been 3 times since it opened shudder

Are you a first-time mum? I do think new mums get a bit obsessive about anything and everything baby related tbh. It's not the end of the world if a changing-room isn't up to your standards. Deal with it and move on.

True Princess by the time you've had your 3rd it's a quick nappy change over the knee at the bus stop, without even a pause in conversation

You say that when you have a baby you become a bit of a second class citizen. I know exactly what you mean, BUT I wonder if, like me, you had a job where you were treated well before having a baby?

In the old days when I used to turn up at Heathrow at 6am and line up with the other business travellers in my suit, customer service was prompt and efficient. People seem to think business types are somehow important (I wasn't!).

Rock up at Costa at 4pm on a Tuesday afternoon with sick all over your top and tons of baby 'stuff' in tow, and you aren't deferred to as much. And yes, the baby change facilities are often crap.

Ah well. Changing in the back of the car does work well.

John Lewis Oxford Street always had good baby facilities. Ikea as well. You should write to Bluewater and complain. IMO there is no excuse in this day and age to expect lovely little newborns be fed in a stinky cesspit of a 'facility'. It's disrespectful and uncivilised. These companies make huge piles of money out of us - they can afford a half decent changing facility.

Breastfeeding in the car works well, too. And feeding weaning stuff in the car. And babies often sleep in the car. Buy a car.

Hello, yes a first time mum and yes probably a bit keen but having said that I don't see anything wrong in expecting places to treat their customers well. No doubt it is much better than it used to be I guess I just think it could be so much better. I always point out the problem with the baby change etc when I come across it.

Thanks yes, have nappy changed and breastfed in my car and it's a good tip.

Breastfeed in the cafe. Changing rooms are for changing, not for eating. You wouldn't eat your lunch there, why should your child?

Even in posh places, when it's a busy weekend, changing rooms can be quite foul, no matter how nice the facilities, as they are simply used a lot and other people's babies have terrible smelling poo.

In Bluewater, the best place to feed/change a baby is in John Lewis - huge baby changing room with secluded, sectioned-off feeding room with decent chairs.

Go to Westfield (Shepherds Bush, although presume others are the same). Best facilities I've ever seen, including the fab double toilets so you can have 2 kids go at the same time, or go yourself whilst little one does too!

Its like everything else, you get good and bad everywhere. If it is places you go to regulary you soon realise where is good, if its a one off then it doesn't matter to much.

Re the prams in restaurants well if they haven't got space what exactly do you want them to do? They do take up a lot of room especially some of the really big ones.

Bluewater always used to be ok but you are always going to be scuppered by the fact that in the view of the facilities provider, babies have 2 needs - nappy changing and feeding. So if you use baby facilities to feed, you end up feeding next to a stinky bin. I would use the nappy change for what it's intended and find yourself a nice comfy chair in Starbucks or similar and feed there. Don't feed in the car, make it a bit more of a pleasurable experience for you both.

Also IME the UK is massively better than most European countries in this regard, have had to change nippers on French bog floors more times than I care to remember, and heaven forfend you should ask for a highchair...

Yes John Lewis is a notable exception and as a consequence that's generally where I go if I need something. I do very often breastfeed in cafes and restaurants but find it quite difficult sometimes as my baby gets distracted quite easily.

As someone mentioned above, it's often not the baby, it's the pram and paraphernalia. I work in a pub/restaurant/hotel and and am continually amazed by the size of prams and pushchairs people attempt to cart round with them, as well as suitcase-sized bags, all for one tiny little baby. In a small and poorly accessible building (not much I can do about that) it's a huge pain in the arse when more than one parent insists on bringing in their gigantic baby chariot.

Also, lady who came in last week on our busiest day of the year (town Christmas fair), we have two high chairs. That is not an unreasonable number considering the size of the building and the fact that the (elderly, cats-bum-mouthed) owner doesn't want babies in there anyway (see above problem with gigantic prams and limited space, taking up room for paying adult customer etc., not saying I agree but whatever). The fact that you had twins would not magically make another high chair appear, when one was already in use, and neither would be being incredibly rude to me. If it's not good enough, well, fuck off to a place advertised as child friendly, not the one with the handwritten 'NO PRAMS' on the door, as provided by aforementioned old cow of an owner. Bit of a hint there.

Lehman I now recall I had that problem too, DD1 is now 5 and frankly no less farking nosy!

Someone should start a 'toilets of shame' thread. NAMING the companies, loud and clear.

OP - go to the baby change facilities in John Lewis in Bluewater not the bluewater ones - far nicer IMO and they have a nice little seperate area for feeding which isn't next to a stinky bin. They have 2 places on 2 floors, one is better than the other but I forget which.

I went to bluewater when DD was quite small and I was still getting to grips with bfing and not comfortable at that point doing it in a cafe (now I wouldn't care ). I rememebr looking on their website and feeling impressed that they have designated feeding rooms and then discovering it was a scabby old chair in the corner of the family loo room

GO TO JOHN LEWIS NEXT TIME