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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think nurseries shouldn't take over children's centres?

65 replies

Chulita · 07/12/2011 12:21

We go to a local children's centre for their stay & play session which is free (but they appreciate a donation in the tea/snack pot as most do). It's got a small soft play, very small sensory room and a craft/play room.

Recently a local nursery has started bringing 8-10 children at a time with 2 helpers. They stay for the full time and all stick together as a group for obvious reasons but whichever room they're in is then full and there's no room for anyone else. At snack time they have a knack of pre-empting the time and all sit down so there are usually about 4 or 5 mums sitting on the floor with their children on their knees. Some of us bring in birthday cake/biscuits to share along with the fruit the centre provides but because the nursery children have the chairs they often finish it off and the other children go without. The nursery staff never bring anything to share despite their mindees sharing what others bring.

I know it's a children's centre and it's for children, none of us have to pay but surely this nursery is getting paid to mind the children, funded for some of them. It just seems a bit cheeky imo.
AIBU to think they're a bit out of order?

OP posts:
MrsWifty · 07/12/2011 20:56

slavetofilofax - can I just clarify a minor point about the tea/snack pot? Do you think it's fair that nursery staff get snacks and tea for free which have been paid for by other mums?

I'm still with the OP though - the facilities at the children's centres near me are nowhere near as good as the facilities at all the nurseries I looked round, so I can't see how nursery kids can be deemed to be missing out by not using the centre's facilities rather than the nursery's. But then, maybe our children's centres are a little bit pants in comparison with most? We sure as hell don't have a sensory room or soft play, just a couple of boxes of toys. And no toilet.

tocha · 07/12/2011 21:06

yanbu. the nursery staff should be providing a stimulating environment for the children anyway. it's going to massively affect the group dynamic, surely?

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 21:22

yes childminders and nurseries are paid to provide stimulating environments, but no matter how stimulating the environment do you lot really think that nursery/childminded kids should be stuck withing the same 4 walls (however stimulatingly decorated and used) and garden fense for 10 hours a day?

Nurseries run on a tight budget

going out to events and CCs is good for the kids, don't be so tight! its not YOURS alone!

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:29

I wouldn't be happy with any childcare setting that kept children within the same four walls and garden for 10 hours a day.

Doesn't mean I think the activities these businesses use should be state sponsored.

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 21:33

why not? the children they bring might get NO opportunities to socialise outside nursery otherwise, CCs are there for the CHILDREN remember, they shouldn't be excluded because the adults that bring them don't meet your criteria of need!

MrsWifty · 07/12/2011 21:35

I second what thebigkahuna said - and also, I'd hope that my child was taken somewhere which wasn't so similar to the nursery setting, but widened their horizons a little more.

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:36

Because when a surestart centre runs a session for childminders and their mindees only they exclude every other child who is not being looked after by a childminder.

And I don't agree that that should happen. Sessions should not be exclusively run for the benefit of private businesses, in my opinion!

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:36

Or, rather, for the benefit of the children being looked after by private businesses. To whom a wage is being paid for this purpose of stimulating said children.

slavetofilofax · 07/12/2011 21:41

MrsWifty, if it is a free stay and play session, the other Mums don't have to contribute to the snacks, the government will pay. They will still be allowed to have something if they want. That's how it works at our childrens centre anyway.

So yes, I do think it is fair that the nursery staff should get a cup of tea. Why should they be refused a cup of tea when every other adult there will get a free cup of tea if they want one?

And as I said, you don't know that the nursery isn't making a donation privately.

The (private) nursery I used to work at shared a lot of toys and equipment with teh children centre, so the children that didn't come to our setting often benefitted from things that were the nursery's. It's swings and roundabouts.

slavetofilofax · 07/12/2011 21:43

Sessions should not be exclusively run for the benefit of private businesses, in my opinion!

But private families are fair game? Hmm

What's the difference if children are benefitting?

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:44

The difference is that children who aren't being looked after by childminders aren't able to benefit from the childminders only sessions.

I think that's wrong.

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:46

at "don't be so tight! its not YOURS alone!"

I don't set foot in children's centres.

slavetofilofax · 07/12/2011 21:46

They can benefit at a different time though, and presumably the other time would be of more benefit to the Mums as well, who will be meeting other Mums and maybe have more CC workers available as they wouldn't be needed so much at the childminder sessions.

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 21:50

Those sessions take the resource away from other children. Just looked at the calendar for my local surestart centre - 6 sessions a week, one of which is a childminder only session. So instead of 6 session, people only have access to five.

'They can benefit at a different time though" And what if they can't? What if the only session it's possible for a family in need to attend is 9.30-11.30 on a Monday morning. But the centre has decided that children are only allowed to benefit from the centres resources if they have to be in the care of a childminder?

How is that inclusive and beneficial to all children?

MrsWifty · 07/12/2011 21:51

slavetofilofax - I'm beginning to see our children's centres are very different! We don't get anything except a glass of tap water. However, even if it's the government paying, I still don't see why the nursery staff shouldn't chip in for the kitty just because they're professionals, although I do see why they wouldn't have to.

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 21:51

make up yer minds Hmm nurseries shouldn't use them because there are child minder groups* or because they shouldn't use them at all because of the adults who accompany them aren't parents???

I imagine if a needy parent/child unit couldn't access any other group and explained that they wouldn't

it seems they cant win, if they mix childcare groups with parent groups, parents grumble because they don't bring home baked whatevers, if they provide double groups so theres one that's mainly parents and one thats mainly childcare providers, THAT'S WRONG TOO!!

are you all forgetting how fragile their existance is AT ALL, we should all be supporting what they're trying to do

slavetofilofax · 07/12/2011 21:58

People only have access to five! Shock

Don't those people realise how lucky they are to even have access to one?

Surestart is a very new thing, my youngest is 9 and we got along fine by having HV sessions in the local hall, the same place that people went for toddler group, rhyme time etc.

Childrens Centres are a complete waste of government money imo, and the services they provide that are important can be done in a much cheaper way. But as long as we have to fund the things that parents should be funding themselves, I would prefer to see as many children as possible getting the benefit.

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 22:00

Why, whenever I try to discuss the childminder issue with you, do you pull a straw man and start responding as though I'm building an argument about why children's centres should exist in the first place, slavetofilofax?

"I would prefer to see as many children as possible getting the benefit" er, yes, that's my point! Confused

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 22:02

and the day they're not home/free with their child to bring them to the group for work or whatever THEIR CHILD GETS TO GO ANYWAY with the childminder???

the kids that are brought by childminders/nurseries ARE THE SAME as the children brought by parents!!!!

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 22:03

""I would prefer to see as many children as possible getting the benefit" er, yes, that's my point!"

so what are the small wriggley things that childminders and nursery nurses bring then???

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 22:05

STOP SHOUTING!!!

Are you reading my posts grumplestilskin?

"and the day they're not home/free with their child to bring them to the group for work or whatever THEIR CHILD GETS TO GO ANYWAY with the childminder???"

Only if they are looked after by a childminder on that day. I have a SAHM friend who only has access to a car on a Monday. She never goes to surestart because she can't get there any other day and the Monday session is for childminded children only.

How does her child get to go anyway with the childminder?"

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 22:07

Grumplestiltskin - I mean this nicely, have you confused me with another poster because you seem to think I'm saying something that I'm not.

I am saying that I don't agree a children's centres facilities should be made available to childminded children only, during certain periods, I don't think that's inclusive.

slavetofilofax · 07/12/2011 22:09

Sorry if I have missed your point, in my mind I had addressed it properly!

I think childminder sessions are a good idea, mainly because children benefit from them. I already said that, it's really that simple. The fact that other children can't beneft at the exact same time as the CM's children is no big deal, and irrelevant when they already have so much opportunity to benefit anyway.

A stay and play session available every week day is a lot to have free access to should you wish, the childminder session in that case would be in addition to those sessions, not instead of.

Also it is good for chilminders to have easy access to lots of other childminders. They build links and share ideas and resources, and have access to others that they can spend time with outside of the CC. This helps them especially when they need to arrange cover for their charges.

grumplestilskin · 07/12/2011 22:10

has she explained her situation to the CC and asked if she can have access to the child minder groups?

the session time-table will never suite EVERYONE and if you can only get out and about once a week there's gonna be a lot of stuff you can't get to all all. My local CC does 2 for my child's age a week and for various reasons I can't get to either, if they cancelled the CM group that doesn't mean another one for parents would be there in its place, its probably as well as the parent groups, not instead of one, and if it was cancelled that doesn't mean one would be put on at a time that suits me!

I don't see how childminder sessions is to blame for your friend's isolating circumstances

thebigkahuna · 07/12/2011 22:12

I still disagree with you slaveto.