to ask what the point of 2+ formula milk

[BlissfulMistletoe]

i can understand special milk for children with special needs.

but for an average 2 year old, what is the point

For lazy people who can't be arsed with giving cows milk? If they read about 2+ they'd realise it's not benificial at all

I'd rather something natural than something twiddled with, nowt to do with money...hence bf for as long as possible then cows' milk. (Formula comes from cows' milk anyway.)

Lazy people who can't be arsed to give cows milk ? Surely giving formula takes more effort as you have to boil a kettle.

As for not needing milk after weaning, then why are we encouraging extended breast feeding.

According to the world health organisation iron deficiency is the most common nutritional disorder in the world. As well as affecting a large number of children and women in developing countries, it is the only nutrient deficiency which is also significantly prevalent in industralized countries.

Isn't cows milk twaddled with to make it safe for human consumption, we don't drink it straight from the cows udder

I give ds follow on milk, he is 17 months old and has developmental delays and other issues. He has low iron levels, and the paeds and dietician said that it might be easier to get iron into him with follow on (he isn't great at swallowing, and has quite a limited diet) rather than iron supplement. Reading the link about how follow on is linked to impaired development, does make me feel a bit sick in my stomach (although I'm not saying that the links/research shouldn't be there!)

He has 2 bottles a day, I try and put spinach in a lot of his purees and I make dried apricot puree. He hates red meat, and can't drink enough juice to use something like spatone. Any ideas for getting more iron in his diet?

"As for not needing milk after weaning, then why are we encouraging extended breast feeding."

Breastmilk is an important part of small children's diets long past early infancy.

But formula isn't breast milk, and as it says on the tin 'isn't intended to replace breastfeeding'.

It is pasturised etc, nothing like what happens to formula!

"Reading the link about how follow on is linked to impaired development, does make me feel a bit sick in my stomach (although I'm not saying that the links/research shouldn't be there!"

I suspect the problem is actually children with high or normal iron levels receiving iron supplements in formula milk. Because of course iron for these children is surplus to requirements.

Why though if children get all they need from food? You can't have it both ways, If women want to bf for longer / use follow on formula because they believe io is a benefit then that is their choice.

if it's pasteurised it's hardly how nature intended it.

"So the next best thing is a top quality, vitamin enriched formula, surely? If it was dangerous to overload on vitamins in formula milk the FSA or whoever would have banned it or the boxes would come with a health warning"

Not if they didn't know it was dangerous! Research into food and drug products will never be completely exhaustive. Which is why products are occasionally removed from the market (even products for babies).

Soy formula was on sale with no recommendations as to appropriate use for many years before concerns were raised about its links with endocrine disorders in adolescence.

But it doesn't have a tonne of well meaning but pretty useless crap chucked in, with no awareness of the long term effects.

Breast milk is a totally different substance to both cow milk and formula, benefits are different.

"Why though if children get all they need from food?"

Because breastmilk, unlike formula, is a 'superfood' . So yes, a balanced diet of non-dairy foods is adequate. But breastmilk can be a really good addition to a small child's diet.

Weaning in this instance doesn't mean the introduction of complementary foods but the complete ceasation of breastfeeding as lead by the child who is probably aged around 2.5-7 years of age. Breastmilk, formula or other milk substitute is no longer needed then though if you are giving a varied balanced diet and have stopped bfing before your child self weans you don't need to give a substitute providing they are over 12m (under 12m they should eb getting a big proportion of their diet from bm or formula).

The word weaning has too many conflicting meanings (the mother stopping bfing, the process of introducing solid foods to a baby, a child deciding they have no further need to bf) to be clear to everybody all the time. That is why the WHO talks about introducing complementary foods rather than weaning.

Was just about to say what Truthsweet said above.

Weaning means when the child self weans from the breast...they need milk till then. No need for milk afterwards. But Truthsweet explained it much better than me!

Breast milk is the biological norm. We are often told it doesn't contain "enough" iron or vitamins, hence formula having shed loads in it. But think about it - breast milk is the baseline, or should be. The amount of iron in it is the amount a baby should be getting!

Well it's happened once for me (DD1) and is currently under way with DD2 (age 4y) and is nowhere near happening with DD3 (age 2.1)

Nothing like writing what you know about!

The only requirement for testing new and 'novel' additions to formula is that it doesn't affect growth over a few months (can't remember how many but I think it's less than 6).

Amazingly long term testing isn't required.

In the past, low salt formula were produced (in reponse to public concern over high salt diet) - they were quietly withdrawn when long term health problems came to light.
The point is, the public were exposed to them before long term effects were known

The thing is follow on formula resembles breastmilk even less once you get to the 1y+/2y+ types.

Breast milk gets fattier and fattier past 1y (moves from around 4% to 11% fat from 12m+) yet these 'growing up' milks have much the same fat as in than semi-skimmed milk (Aptamil's Growing Up milk for 2y+ has 1.9% fat vs semi-skimmed milk has 1.8g).

Aptamil Infant formula has 3.5g per 100ml, Aptamil Follow On for 6m+ has 3.2g, Aptamil 1y+ has 2.8g and Aptamil 2y+/Growing Up has 1.9g.

So as fat is necessary for brain and nerve growth breastmilk gets fattier just when consumption of bm starts to go down and yet formula doesn't - it gets lower in fat when you move from infant formula to 6m+ to 12m+ to 2y+....

Joyful - around 5% of the iron in formula is absorbed vs. 50% in bm (the rest is locked in to Lactoferrin molecules which mop up microbes (parasites/bacteria/viruses) in the stomach). The ~95% of iron left in the baby's stomach following formula consumption isn't bound in such a way and is free to be used as food/building blocks for microbes.

This is one of the reasons ebf babies gut bacteria is very different to formula fed babies gut bacteria (beneficial vs putrefactive bacteria [and yes those are the official types not something I have made up])

wow thanks for that info Truthsweet! Makes me feel slightly better about all the nightwaking and night feedings at the moment with DD of 15 months. At least she is getting 11% fatty milk in her tummy!

BM really moves from being a complete food to being a hit of energy/vitamins & minerals/immune boost when babies move to being toddlers and lose the patience/attention span to feed for hours. Amazing isn't it?

Plus those sleepy hormones still sneak in there

Is there a link to the stats Truthsweet? It's just that I want to show my HV, as she said at my DD's 10 months check that BM is "just a drink" at her age. Ofcourse I didn't believe her, but didn't say anything at the time, but I wish I did, and might bring it up another time.

Study here. HTH.