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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the only primary school in town should NOT be a religious one?

77 replies

BornSicky · 03/12/2011 16:13

I live in a rural area, but the population of the town is about 3000.

The only primary school in the town is CofE and it is very religious. Just been in there today and there are bibles out on tables, quotes tacked to the walls, little prayers posted up and around with moral epithets etc etc

I live just a few minutes walk away and the only other primary schools in the area are a good few miles to drive and pretty oversubscribed.

It really annoys me that the school is the only option if you live here and either can't drive or don't have time to drive out to another school.

I thought there might have been a way to exclude a child from the religious activities, but it's all permeating, and even then to do so would be pretty hard on a child who didn't get involved.

Poor show from the LEA to not have a mixed faith or no faith school, or AIBU?

OP posts:
alienbump · 03/12/2011 19:11

My 3 children go (or went in the case of my eldest who is now at High School) to a very churchy C of E Primary School, the eldest 2 were christened in the Catholic church and have been brought up by their pretty hardline atheist parents... Eldest 2 went through a very devout stage between starting reception and upto around the end of year 2. Both then decided it was all a big story and I hope it's worked like a kind of "vaccination against religion", they've been exposed to it, had a mild version and are now hopefully immune! Number 3 who has just started reception this year is going through the devout stage but my prediction would be that she wil lose her religion quicker than her siblings did - she may surprise me and end up a nun like her three great aunts of course!

NotADudeExactly · 03/12/2011 19:16

YANBU at all. Education should not be tied to religion in this way - especially if it's state funded.

As far as I am concerned, religious organizations simply have no business in the education sector, public or private.

AnotherMincepie · 03/12/2011 20:37

I see where you're coming from, but in some ways a Church of England middle-of-the-road Christianity can be useful, whether you believe in it or not. It ensures there's less room for some other, more sinister, ideology to take hold. Unfortunately there will always be those wanting to fill this "gap in the market".

"religious organizations simply have no business in the education sector, public or private."

Original poster
BornSicky · 03/12/2011 20:48

alienbump i know what you're saying. i went to a religious primary school and a secular secondary school and as i went from one to the other, i realised it was mostly likely just a collection of interesting old stories and not real.

however, by funding such institutions, i think the state is giving faiths too much power and too much credence.

by all means study religion, but don't indoctrinate.

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cory · 03/12/2011 20:49

I wouldn't like it and I am a Christian.

alienbump · 03/12/2011 20:55

I would love to see and end to the state funding of church schools, one reason why I was quietly happy to have three lots of funding being used by my three children Wink

GnomeDePlume · 03/12/2011 22:42

YANBU IMO the state should not provide any funding for any religious education.

If you want religious education of any sort then pay for it through the collection plate.

IMO state education should be entirely secular.

Skimty · 03/12/2011 22:51

I'm in a similar situation.
It's laughable that people think you have the choice. If I were religious I would get priority at a religious school, do you think you have priority at a non-religious school if you're not? I managed to get DS into the community primary in a bulge class but we live out of catchment and they're building a new housing estate right next to it so as siblings do not get priority our house is going on the market!

ILoveShinyThings · 03/12/2011 22:53

I live in a town of 19,000 people and all we have are religious primary schools. If I wanted to send my children to a non religious primary school then the nearest are 12 miles away.

Skimty · 03/12/2011 22:53

I can accept religious schools although I do not agree with them because I can see it will take a 'miracle' to overturn them what I cannot accept is coming bottom of the list for admission for a religious school if you are an atheist and not coming top anywhere. It seems discriminatory to me.

MillyR · 03/12/2011 23:03

If all of the other schools near to the one in question are oversubscribed, that would suggest that there is a shortage of school places, unless this CofE school is hugely undersubscribed. It sounds like your town needs another school. My nearest town has a population of 4,500 and has 3 infant schools. Does the CofE school have a double class intake?

Tiggles · 03/12/2011 23:30

If the school belongs to the Church, presumably if the Church closed the school as you don't like the fact they own it, then there wouldn't be a school in your village and you would have to travel elsewhere anyway.

Regarding the texts on the walls etc our local C of E school was pulled up in its latest OFSTED inspection as it didn't have them and therefore did not stand out enough as being a church school.

Original poster
BornSicky · 04/12/2011 07:55

if the church closed the school (not sure if they could just do that), then surely the LEA would have a duty to provide a school for the community? so, shouldn't mean the end of the/a school in the town. in fact it would be far better if they did. But, they won't because then they'd lose all those parishioners (real or playing at it) that the CofE desperately needs to make it look like a going concern.

staggered by the Ofsted comment...

OP posts:
Original poster
BornSicky · 04/12/2011 07:57

oh and i had a look at the demographics for the area and christians represent 40-60% of the population (according to census and other local authority reports) and then the next highest faith group are pagans...

i KNOW there aren't any pagan schools in the area, so where do they go?

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troisgarcons · 04/12/2011 08:03

Perhaps no one has wanted to start a pagan school? however paganism is a complex area and unbrellas many different beliefs.

And if I might chip in with a bit of what the curriculum states; there must be a form of 'collective worship' in ALL state schools. Mind you, they get past that with reading our netball notices in assembly these days

kerala · 04/12/2011 08:52

yanbu its an anachronism that doesn't stand up to any examination. We host Italian students who were shocked at the set up here in Italy a really catholic country state schools are secular if you want religion you pay for it. Quite right.

Dawkins did a program on this about 6 months ago which showed up all the issues.

we were careful to buy a house next to a non religious school but are still having to deal with bibles being handed out,vicar doing assembly and DD year 1 telling us that god made the world and put all the fishes in the sea...

exoticfruits · 04/12/2011 08:53

You have to go back to 1870 and then you will understand the situation.

Bonsoir · 04/12/2011 09:02

My DP is Jewish and my DSSs are Jewish. I am Anglican and DD is... not sure yet!

DD goes to a secular private school. The DSSs used to go to a secular state school. They now go to a RC school.

TBH, our overriding concern when choosing a school for our children is (a) the quality of the education, in the widest sense, that they will receive there (b) their chances of actually obtaining a place. All the rest is pretty much equal...

Original poster
BornSicky · 04/12/2011 09:35

thanks for the info about the 1870 Education Act.

Interesting that back then the churches attempts to foister religion on the masses in the face of a secular education programme were so similar to today.

i'll see if i can find the robert winston documentary as well.

bonsoir it's absolutely about the quality of education in this case.

I don't think that proselytising to young children is at all appropriate or that pursuing one faith over any other in shaping children's identities represents quality. to me, it represents manipulation and, as an atheist, a poor way of teaching a child science and philosophy. hardly provikes a questioning mind if the answers are already pre-proscribed.

i'd go back to an ealier poster who said "if people want religion, they can pay for it", not the state.

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exoticfruits · 04/12/2011 11:20

You do have to separate the church and the state first and the state would have to buy the schools off the church-they can't just seize a valuable asset.

CustardCake · 04/12/2011 11:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fotheringhay · 04/12/2011 11:44

I agree with everyone who says YANBU.

SardineQueen · 04/12/2011 12:27

So the argument seems to go that everyone has to put up with it because religious organisations have the government over a barrel.

So much for the comments about getting this changed via democratic means and if the poster doesn't like it she should go out and change it.

With so many of the schools on religious premises and bishops in the house of lords etc there's no hope is there.

Even though the state is paying for the actual education of the children to the tune of 100% or 95% (I think?).

UnexpectedOrange · 04/12/2011 12:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
BornSicky · 04/12/2011 13:10

unexpected

oh for a world of non-pushy faiths!

there is a free school here, buddhist led mainly, but seems to have a similar philosophy. the state won't fund that one though...

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