to hate the way my dp talks to me and expect him to change after all these years?

[horsetowater]

DP has a snappy bossy way of speaking, he doesn't listen, goes off on a tangent, doesn't make himself clear all of which make communication extremely difficult.

After 25 years together I have had enough. We have just been to counselling and the only thing it changed was that he showed me a little more deference but reverts to type if there is any kind of misunderstanding or conflict.

Now with anyone else, if there's a problem / conflict / disagreement, you continue to talk until a compromise is reached. But it's all or nothing with him. I've been very clear with him about how painful it is when he speaks like this but nothing has changed.

I've looked into all the narcissistic emotional abuse books and he does fit a lot of the symptoms and it would be lovely to say bye-bye and get on with a new life. But in every other sense is is a very good man - hard working, generous, creative, practical, doting father, etc etc. And that part is so hard to disentangle myself from. I still love him but I can no longer take the way he talks as it wears me down.

I know quite a few people with husbands like this, snappy and bossy and wonder whether this is just a man thing? I put up with it all these years because I was strong. But now I'm not any more and it's getting in the way of bringing up the kids. Communication has to be good where kids are involved, there's no room for error.

OK I'm naiive to think he can change this, but AIBU?

hiddenhome interestingly at dinner, dd asked 'why did you swear at Daddy?' I told her because the way he talked to me is wrong and nobody should put up with being spoken to like a dog. I told her I apologised to him. He chipped in with comments trying to justify himself as usual. It sounds hard to be so blunt but she has SEN and hearing loss so didn't take in what he said, only my reaction. This is another reason why I need him out of my life, she needs clarity, calm and stability on a much more consistent level than other children.

Fortunately I have always explained our behaviour to dd and they know what's right and what's wrong, but I am aware of what you say about them picking up this pattern of behaviour.

And he's still all over me like a rash as though we're completely steady.

tammy unfortunately I'm the shouty one in the house because I'm not heard by him (and frequently by them but I think that's normal). His tone of voice and the unreasonable circumstances when he becomes aggressive is the offensive bit. My shoutiness is more ranting and never frightens them because it's just about my frustration - when they ignore my (reasonable) demands time and again. But it's not aggression. And it's rare by the way. He very rarely shouts - he only wants me to hear it I guess.

OP - this is awful for you. I feel there are some people who feel entitled to speak this way to their partners. No amount of them being told it's wrong will change them if they don't see it as problem deep inside.

I've removed myself to the spare room now, excuse being 'I need a good nights sleep'. He used to interrupt my sleep a lot with snoring / etc. He was very angry a couple of year ago when I did this - saw it as the ultimate affront. But loving the spare room, even though it's a mattress on the floor etc.

He had me in tears on Xmas eve for the first time in ages, discussing DCs present which should have been discussed ages ago. Whenever a joint decision has to be made it ends in an argument. The 'discussion' usually starts off with practicalities, then he goes off on a tangent where ultimately he's trying to convince me of the decision he has already made. But it's more a kind of blustering, where he talks at me rather than with me. Normally I'm asking questions rather than insisting on anything, I think about the pros and cons. I've realised that this is something I always wondered about with his family. They would always talk gobshite just to win an argument - half-truths, half-facts - the winning was always more important than the nub of the matter.

This is the way he is, has always been and he has had years of warnings and ultimatums from me that I can't live with this kind of conflict. The way we have dealt with this is by backing off completely, or he has tried to twist the conflict to being about me - frigid, mad, nuts, an idiot - because of course, his winning the argument is the only way.

It's a sad waste of a good man. He is ultimately a very thoughtful person, generous, hardworking, protective, creative and still good looking. His verging on autistic narcissism is going to hold him back whatever he does.

Yes he is like that with people he works with (restrains his traits so that he can survive). He's nice to people, but he tends to completely ignore what others want, need or say. He has no friends.

Zigzag I am going to try and focus on disentangling our lives, sorting bits and bobs as you say. If I had a handful of possessions and no kids I would be out the door tomorrow. But 25 years of intermingled 'stuff' is taking a long time to get through - I have started, but it seems like an endless task. He 'reorganises' areas of the house from time to time and jumbles everything up again. Because he has no concept of the way me and DCs use the house it's very rarely helpful and usually obstructive. He's a great one for putting stuff 'away' ontop of a cupboard or mantelpiece, or finding the nearest clear space in the kitchen and putting his phone on top. Or whenever I set up an area for my stuff, he fills it with his stuff. What is it about old chargers and wires? He's got drawers full of them.

difficult one. how does he speak to his friends? can you ask him to speak to you in the same way.

OP you're so articulate and self-aware. Both qualities I really admire in people. I have nothing constructive to say other than stay strong and I just have a feeling you'e going to be OK.

Thanks for reading my rambling post! Skyblue - he doesn't have friends really, partly because he is so 'autistic'. But it also suits him that way - he avoids conflict with others generally. But it's only really me that he has to make commitments with (decisions about whatever). He has had problems in the past at work with upsetting female colleagues.

I guess it's my call. I constantly think about separating, I can't look forward to holidays and making plans with him (because of the stress and arguments). I guess I was never really 'together' with him at all, just convinced myself I was. It was my endless forgiveness of his 'ways', my endless patience, compliance, ultimately my strength that has allowed this to continue for so long. But I'm old and tired now and my kids deserve better.