Is the school being unreasonable for only letting the dcs who have music lessons through the school perform at school events?

[Carrotsandcelery]

I am not sure if I am unreasonable or not.

Each year our school selects 4 students to receive free music lessons for a year and then heavily subsidised lessons thereafter.

Those who already play that instrument are not considered for this extra education.

The extra lessons are not related to income in any way whatsoever.

These pupils then play at every school event and church gathering for the rest of their school careers.

Many other pupils within the school also receive music lessons, at great expense to those families, yet their dcs are never invited to play with the others at school.

I can't help thinking it would be lovely to get all the pupils who play the violin or guitar or recorder together to learn the same tune and play together at school events, regardless of whether the lessons are through the school or not.

I can see that there would be some logistical issues but it is a small school and not that hard to organise. There are musical parents in the village who would happily oversee each year group I am sure.

Am I being unreasonable or would it be fairer and bring the school together a bit more?

YANBU

YANBU

We have a peri concert each year in school for children who have lessons. It is run by the peri teachers, so fair enough it should be their pupils.

I would find it very strange if schools did not use all their musical talent in school events. Most don't have to be very picky - musicians aren't usually coming out of the woodwork.

Yanbu

YANBU

I think that the talents of all children should be recongised. I think you should take this up with the head or failing that the chair of govenors.

It would encourage the musical talents of ALL the children. How are music scholarships decided? Are thre some children who get lessons through the school and have to pay full cost.

It seems a weird system. At our school ALL children get group lessons in recorder for a year. (Ear plugs emoticon needed) Children who are entitled to free school dinners get free group lessons. Everyone else pays regardless of talent or if the child does another musical instrument.

YANBU. What a nasty way to run a school.

There are no pupils taught in school outwith the system - they get free and then subsidised lessons or no lessons at all.

One year group do get free recorder lessons for a year too and yes, (ear plugs emoticon).

There are many other dcs within the school who play musical instruments. Not all of them would want to perform but it would be a great opportunity for those who do, to play with others, especially those they know.

My dd plays the piano and violin, and has played the violin for 5 years. I am fairly sure she would love to play in the church at Christmas time, with some of her other peers, but she feels excluded.

I suggest you ask the head to show you the governors' policy on this. If they don't have one then they should. I was a governor for a number of years and we set policies on everything. The system seems to discriminate against those whose parents pay for music lessons outside school. YANBU, it's very beneficial for children to make music together regardless of where they get their tuition. The school is not valuing their talents.

Sorry, may have misunderstood, but do you mean that only those 4 children get to perform, despite other children having music lessons through school?

I am sorry, I don't think I explained it very well. Only the 4 chosen each year get to perform. They don't select until P4 so there will be a maximum of 16 pupils allowed to perform - usually 2 groups. No one else is taught through the school at all. Everyone else has to have private lessons outwith the school.

I don't object to having to pay for private lessons. Obviously they can't teach everyone. I just wish they included the others in opportunities to play as a group.

I think that's awful! I thought our county was bad, but at least it subsidises lessons in school. However, I have noticed quite a lot of free music lessons mentioned on MN. Postcode lottery eh?

Presumably you're in Scotland - has funding been changed recently?

All children at our school (even our little Y2 violinists) are welcome to join the orchestra, and we do several concerts per year.

Yes we are in Scotland. I am not aware of funding changing.

An orchestra sounds lovely. I wish I was musical myself and I would offer to run one.

YANBU. That is really strange.

Carrots - do the children who are chosen in P4 all develop into brilliant musicians? How do they choose them?

I was on a course in Camden a few years ago and they said they went round to every school and assessed each child for musical ability, and then offered free lessons to the children who showed promise. I always thought this was great until I read your post, which gave me a more realistic slant on what might happen if selection takes place at an early age.

They assess all the pupils and then remove all those who already receive tuition in the instrument (violin) and then begin to offer it. The first 4 don't always accept as they may not be interested, may play another instrument, the parents don't want to be responsible for the instrument etc.

They keep working their way down the list until they have 4 willing to take part.

Some of those children already get tuition in other instruments and their parents don't insist they practise etc as the instrument they pay for is the one they focus on. Their parents have admitted as much to me By doing this they deny others the opportunity to learn an instrument and waste the space. That is another thread though probably.

The students who do get tuition learn to play - some better than others which is probably the case whether the tuition comes from the school or privately.

The opportunity to play in Church services is given to them all, whether they are good or bad, have made use of the lessons or not, as long as they are from the 4 selected by the school initially.

It sounds lovely in theory Fraidy and it does provide opportunities for children but it is not appreciated as much as it should be and it does exclude pupils with ability too.

It does sound rather unfair, and the points you make about the few places available being wasted in some cases would really annoy me too.

However, way back when I was at school, the opposite situation caused lots of fuss and annoyance. The school would choose the talented well-practised musicians to take lengthy solo spots in the school concerts. None of the soloists were taught their instruments by the school - ever! The school however made much of producing such talented and accomplished young people, and they were in every magazine and newsletter. Lots of discouraged pupils and angry parents, especially the parents who were paying the school for its one-to-one music tuition.

Your child's school may think they are scrupulously only supporting the children to whom they teach music, rather than taking credit for lessons parents have paid for outside school.

If you can raise it in a way that makes it about increasing opportunity for all they may be able to see a way to be more inclusive.

I would like ability to be put aside really and for the dcs just to have fun, all playing together. I think it would be far more wholesome. At present a tiny handful get up and wobble through a tune. It would be less scary and much more fun if a few more of them got up and wobbled through something - safety in numbers and all that

I think I will have to raise it somehow. I don't want to make a big deal out of it but it would be more inclusive (and fun).

It is sort of the other way round at DS2 school, in that they demand expect all students who play an instrument to play in the orchestra. DS2 has never had lessons through the school and never wanted to play in the groups. He came under a lot of pressure to do do, especially as an A level music student and the "leading" saxophonist in the school.

We supported him in resisting the pressure as I don't see why the school should present a pupil in a school group as if he had been taught by them.

carabos that is a good point. Kids may not want to play in groups at the school and I think that should be respected. No one enjoys dcs being put under unnecessary pressure, especially at A level age when they have enough to contend with.

I think when my dd gets to secondary school age there will be a school orchestra to play in, if she wants to.

She just loves playing Christmas Carols and would love to get up with her friends and play them in Church with her friends but isn't allowed to, despite being capable.

Is it something to do with practising?

If the children were all to play together they would need time to practise. I know our instrument teachers are only in the school for the length of the lesson and no longer.

Just a guess though.

YANBU!

We have auditions for school concerts so anyone can have a go which seems fair.

I don't see why the school should present a pupil in a school group as if he had been taught by them

I would imagine the school isn't trying to take the credit but is trying to make the concert as high quality as possible. Hearing the top musicians in a school play is a delight and the younger students love to hear and see them in action too. It makes up for having to sit through the training strings or junior wind band.

Having said that if he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to of course.

It can't be a whole Scotland thing, that's for sure. It might be more related to availability for rehearsals though, peri music teachers can be spread very thinly.

That said. The DDs schools (Angus) manage;-

Violin and Cello for as many children as they can get instruments for in P4 and on. Brass and Woodwind from P5, again for as many children as they can get instruments for (shared across the Primary and Secondary cluster).

Only children having school lessons play in the school bands, but anyone else seems to be able to perform solos at at least one of the school concerts per year. Upper Primary (usually P6 onwards I think) and secondary then also play in a county wide wind band or strings orchestra for two terms each year with a concert at the end.

Obviously you don't have governors to go to. Perhaps you could find out what other Primary schools in the region do though, find an example you like, and get the Parent Council to lobby the head.

Good luck. DD1 and DD2 have benefited hugely from participation, and DD3 can't wait to be old enough to start.

Exactly the same where I am mustdash.

I do think it maybe something to do with practising/rehearsals.