Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the HELL some people get into university?

600 replies

SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 18:50

I'm currently doing a degree as a mature student alongside work, and am just amazed at the stupidity lack of knowledge some of my fellow students have. For instance, nearly all of them - on a fecking ENGLISH LANGUAGE degree course - mix up "your" and you're", "there" and "their", and use the spelling "definately".

I overheard a conversation today that involved several students talking about how they didn't know their times tables above 5 or 6. Shock

AIBU to seriously wonder if it's even worth doing a degree if this is the standard they're allowing in at the moment?

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:08

Zzen - platonic wars would be fucking terrifying! Grin

One of my mates had a student who was sad because they got to week 10 doing medieval lit and still hadn't got to Shakespeare ... which she was expecting in the medieval lit course ...

Now that is worrying TBH!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:10

porto - I think if it were just poor teaching, possibly the large amount of time, money and effort going into researching how to teach people would have got further than it has, TBH. I think good teaching can be really helpful in sorting out coping strategies. But then a lot of people only get diagnosed when they get to university, because they'd been coping ok up to them and only find out there's an issue when the level is already quite high.

GrimmaTheNome · 01/12/2011 20:10

You need to be able to write comprehensibly for most degrees. This is rather hard to do without a basic grip of spelling and grammar.

I had a severely dyslexic colleague who was one of the most brilliant writers of scientific software I've had the honour to work with. He sweated blood to write his thesis - but he had to do it. He wasn't stupid, and he wasn't lazy so he knuckled down and dealt with it.

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 20:13

Fair enough LRD, I will only judge 9 out of 10 of them. Wink

And I have to disagree. Diamondback has put it far more eloquently and succinctly than I could have, but spelling and basic maths are a crucial backbone of knowledge and learning.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:14

Grimma - it's not difficult actually. You just need to learn the coping strategies and/or have appropriate allowances made. Lots of universities make it very easy (and a few I admit are less good).

It does depend how severe the problem is, I grant.

Backtobedlam · 01/12/2011 20:14

Porto-personally I don't think being able to learn something parrot fashion is a particularly good indicator of intelligence, or the only indicator of intelligence. Great for your dd that she knows up to 6 already.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:15

How can spelling be a crucial backbone of learning?

It's mildly useful, sure ... but crucial?

complexnumber · 01/12/2011 20:16

Oh Bedlam: "A degree is proof that you can study a subject up to a certain level, so why would an English language student need to know their tables?"...

I disagree so strongly! To me, being a graduate means you are an intelligent and capable human being who has demonstated this by excelling in a particular academic area.

I have a maths degree, but I can chat with others about English Lit, World History or the impact of science upon modern society. I have friends who have degrees in Liberal Arts subjects who can argue with me over the statistical significance of a random sampling model.

We can do this (admitedly after a couple of beers!) because we graduated at a time when a degree represented a bit more than "proof that you can study a subject up to a certain level"

I just read all that back to myself, Good Grief I come across as a pompous arsehole!

(I'm still going to post it though)

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 20:18

I meant to put spelling, grammar and basic maths, but yes I do believe that these are crucial. If you can't spell, put together a sentence, or add things together, how are you supposed to write an academic essay, or compile a report?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 01/12/2011 20:19

LRD
Spelling and grammar are UTTERLY CRUCIAL for all learning.
If the recipient of your missive does not understand it as you intended then you have said nothing.

Look what happened when there was confusion about the dot or comma as a thousands separator - a NASA satellite crashed

If I am writing to HMRC regarding a clients tax affairs, they have to get MY version of what I mean to say. Bad grammar and spelling could cost my clients thousands of pounds

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:22

Well, my dyslexic students manage it, and I manage it. It's possible. You get used to checking and you get a sense of what your're likely to mis-spell and avoid those words, or you avoid grammatical constructions you know you can't cope with well.

And you maybe also get someone to proofread or ask the university disability resource centre of an amanuensis if it's bad.

There are ways around this. These days legally, you have to make resonable allowance when employing a dyslexic person, so some universities are really good at helpign people work out ways around the problem.

Anyway, I don't want to take this over because, as you say, if it's really the case all of them struggle it won't be just dyslexia is the issue. I just care a lot about dyslexia and saying that it needn't hold people back.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:23

talking - utterly crucial, are they? And in capitals too.

Shit, I better hand back my degrees and pay back my PhD grant pronto.

Portofino · 01/12/2011 20:24

Backto - but when are talking times tables - I don't mean sitting there saying 2 X 2 = 4, 2 X 2 =6 in a sing song voice. I mean looking at a sum or calculation and being able to do it in your head. I think calculators have killed the art of mental arithmatic in the way that email/fb does away with letters.

Portofino · 01/12/2011 20:25

2 x 3 Blush

GrimmaTheNome · 01/12/2011 20:28

Well, my dyslexic students manage it, and I manage it. It's possible. You get used to checking and you get a sense of what your're likely to mis-spell and avoid those words, or you avoid grammatical constructions you know you can't cope with well.

Yes - you manage it. Because you aren't stupid or lazy, you put in that extra effort. Unlike the people in the OP who couldn't be arsed.

KatAndKit · 01/12/2011 20:28

Why does everything end up being turned into a debate about disability or special educational needs?

It isn't relevant in this case. The vast majority of undergraduates are not dyslexic and they should have learnt how to express themselves in good English by the time they leave school. Obviously people who are dyslexic can still be very intelligent despite the dyslexia, and can learn coping strategies etc. It is also right that universities, and employers, cater for their needs.

But as I said, the vast majority of school leavers are not dyslexic so I fail to understand why it is no longer expected that they will have grasped the key points of how to communicate in good written English.

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 20:29

at porto.

LRD - no one's saying that dyslexics shouldn't be given the same opportunities as non-dyslexics, and kudos to you for getting a degree and PhD with dyslexia.

This isn't anti dyslexics. This is a rant about how standards have slipped so far that they seem to be letting anyone in including people who think 2 x 2 is 6 :o

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 01/12/2011 20:31

LRD
both of my parents are dyslexic
dyslexics generally take a darn sight more care over their work than other students
but what happens to those students when they graduate and they no longer have access to the "disability resource centre" as in an SME it will not exist.

when I was at uni there was a running joke that Elec Eng postgrad job applications were multiple choice cos the guys could not string a sentence together
unbelievably bright - but could not communicate it
which is why the arts luvvies have taken over the press. If we science / numbers people want our voices heard we have to learn to communicate clearly

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 20:32

Ok, sorry, I do know it wasn't intended to be anti-dyslexia (although it's rubbish to say the 'vast majority' of undergrads aren't dyslexic. It's common).

It's just I am one of those people who constantly gets the nasty 'ooh, she must be so thick, look at the funny way she does X', and even if 9 out of 10 people aren't in that position, some will be. And they'll feel shite.

And I doubt any of them will find spelling 'crucial' to their studies. Because, you know, it's not.

Portofino · 01/12/2011 20:34

SayYule - you're OK ! I am not claiming to be Oxbridge material. They let me in Newcastle Poly a C and a D. I believe it is now the University of Northumbria which sounds MUCH posher Grin

TalkinPeace2 · 01/12/2011 20:34

LRD
spelling IS crucial when you get out into the cold hard world of the workplace
I'm not being mean. I'm just being factual.
Universities are lovely rarified places where constructive dismissal rarely exists

Want2bSupermum · 01/12/2011 20:34

I think the range of standards is greater today than it was previously. When picking through applicants I don't even look at their education. I read their experience and check their application for spelling and grammar. If they worked during school then they get an automatic interview. It doesn't matter where they worked, just the fact that they were able to combine work, school and survived gets them a foot in the door.

As someone who is dyslexic, I take great care with spelling and grammar. It annoys me when others use dyslexia as an excuse for being lazy. Everyone should know their times tables up to 12. If a child in primary school can do it an adult shouldn't have a problem.

Portofino · 01/12/2011 20:35

with a - lordy, those touch typing lessons were a waste....

KatAndKit · 01/12/2011 20:36

I would say that 90% is the vast majority but that phrase is open to interpretation.

And that is even if you agree that 10% of the population is dyslexic. I have no idea if that is true or not so I won't debate it. I agree that dyslexia is fairly common, but that does not mean that we should give up on all educational standards because some people are dyslexic.

Spelling is not crucial to your studies. But why should people have finished 13 years of state education and not have a decent level of spelling? The same is true about having a basic ability in maths. I didn't need my times tables to get a degree in French, but I think it would have been pretty awful if I had got that far in my education without a basic ability in mental arithmetic.

ElaineReese · 01/12/2011 20:37

I have English students who confuse 'been' with 'being'.