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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the HELL some people get into university?

600 replies

SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 18:50

I'm currently doing a degree as a mature student alongside work, and am just amazed at the stupidity lack of knowledge some of my fellow students have. For instance, nearly all of them - on a fecking ENGLISH LANGUAGE degree course - mix up "your" and you're", "there" and "their", and use the spelling "definately".

I overheard a conversation today that involved several students talking about how they didn't know their times tables above 5 or 6. Shock

AIBU to seriously wonder if it's even worth doing a degree if this is the standard they're allowing in at the moment?

OP posts:
ObviouslyLovesTinsel · 02/12/2011 16:50

SayYuleetcetcetc - you went for my name! I'm flattered Blush

GrimmaTheNome · 02/12/2011 16:59

I think this is the crucial point: at university, people are still learning how to overcome this sort of thing (whether they're dyslexic or not, IMO). But they can learn.

I really think that anyone who isn't dyslexic (or some other such issue) really should be beyond the stage indicated by the OP by the time they are admitted to university. Universities shouldn't be for providing remedial English lessons. If the normal education system has failed some potential students, then there should be some appropriate provision available as a pre-entry step.

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 02/12/2011 17:03

Obviously - yes! It felt more me. Thank you! Grin I miss your hos though Sad

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 17:15

I agree they should be, grimma. It's the point that's been made again and again - it's very bad that people get to age 18 (whether they then go to university or not) and can't do things that they were supposed to have spent their time from age 4 learning at school. But to conclude those people are therefore stupid, or to say 'right, that's your chance gone' is IMO not the right answer.

Anyway, I seem to have got very passionate on this thread! Grin But it has made me think a bit harder about things so I'm glad of that - thanks for starting it SayYule.

GrimmaTheNome · 02/12/2011 17:26

No, it shouldn't be their chance gone - there should be provision to fix the problems before university.

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 02/12/2011 17:36

It's been a good discussion, and also made me think more carefully before judging people.

I think the main point is lack of education rather than lack of intelligence.

OP posts:
Xenia · 02/12/2011 17:54

The bottom line is that employers are swamped with CVs. Even I get several a week. They will not accept those with errors on them so it really does matter and I am not sure all students even know when they are getting spelling or grammar wrong and some may think it does not matter.

Also some cannot be bothered to check things when they know they have dyslexia. My oldest is slightly dyslexic so is very careful to check work and it's not been a problem. She would not be able to do her sort of job if she were seriously badly dyslexic as it involved a lot of written English. Plenty of other jobs do not but even so employers will check the CV carefully. I suspect when we are not in a recession and there are not enough graduates to be had then it matters less.

mumzy · 02/12/2011 19:06

Haven't read the whole thread but just to say ds got 4a in reading and 4b in writing in year4 and his grammar, punctuation and spelling IMO was appalling. Now the national target in English in YEAR 6 is 4 b, so it's hardly surprising a hell of a lot of children are leaving primary school without basic skills in the usage of English. Here endeth the rant!

LeQueen · 02/12/2011 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aubergineinautumn · 02/12/2011 21:21

Never mind undergrads, I've known postgrads who don't know basic geography or history, even the post grad lecturers don't know their it's from its!

microcow · 02/12/2011 21:29

it took me years to learn grammar and punctuation etc but that was only as i post on here Grin

when you're a kid, unless highly motivated - there are just lots of other things to keep you interested now and pc/text speak is how people communicate now.

i'm sure there are tons of hacks that don't know their there from their there

that's what editors do surely Wink

seems a bit bizarre that some think children should know everything at such a young age, because they did, times were different.

GrimmaTheNome · 02/12/2011 21:40

seems a bit bizarre that some think children should know everything at such a young age,

Not everything. Just the basics. By the time they hit secondary they should be able to write comprehensibly. All the kids I know can. Anyway, the OPs complaint wasn't about children it was about young adults.

rhetorician · 02/12/2011 21:46

back in the day (many many moons ago) we did the difference between to, too and two and between there/their in infants (age 5-6) - this was a big mixed ability class (two forms in one room) in a rough area. I can still see the flashcards now: Mrs Jewel, you were the best teacher I ever had (I think we also did its and it's, oh and learned about photosynthesis...)

microcow · 02/12/2011 21:46

but they learn how to write comprehensively at university, it's part of the degree.

being able to recite times tables is great but pretty pointless and rabies was around such a long time ago - itls about as relevant today as rickets

eurochick · 02/12/2011 22:35

Standards fell a long time ago. I am 35 and went to a State grammar, one of the best State schools in the country at the time. Looking back, aspects of my education were shocking.

I remember in primary school one teacher (a curmudgeonly Welshman called Mr Jones) telling us that he wasn't supposed to tell us this but was going to do it anyway... and then teaching us the difference between a noun and a verb.

Our language teachers used to get very frustrated with our lack of grammatical knowledge. I learned a lot of grammar from studying foreign languages. I can recall someone around the age of 16 asking what a verb was - a very bright girl too. But one who wasn't taught by Mr Jones, clearly!

No one ever taught how me to use their/there/they're. My A-level English Lit teacher finally explained it to me. No one else ever had. So many teachers must have let my incorrect usage pass.

It's quite shocking really.

Pendeen · 03/12/2011 11:40

On the subject of CVs, I have never advertised for staff (and would have to be far busier than I am at present to even contemplate doing so) however even I have received a number of speculative CVs in the past two years.

I have to say the standard of spelling, grammar and presentation (very important in my work) were not as bad as some of you have experienced however I would have expected near-perfection if someone is trying to gain the interest of a potential employer.

The most annoying trend however, was the high proportion of applicants who sent a standardised CV, obviously churned out without any attempt at personalisation.

More than a few were so lazy as to not even address the covering letter to me!

limitedperiodonly · 03/12/2011 12:21

'I then in later life was involved in selecting graduates for a well-known retailer .....In addition a single spelling or grammatical error in either CV or letter and the application was binned without readng on.'

I'm not disagreeing with this in principle but it's always existed as just one of the ways of whittling down a pile of CVs to a more manageable number.

A former colleague uses the following technique for choosing the right candidate: after discarding obviously unsuitable candidates, CVs with poor spelling/typos, people who fail to address the correct person or company or who fail to tailor their application to the job on offer etc she's still swamped.

So then she chooses every eighth CV until she arrives at the number of candidates she wants to interview. In other words, in an increasingly tight jobs market, it's a lottery.

No one should run away with the idea that getting an interview is anything other than that.

I'm sure there are tons of hacks that don't know their there from their there

Micro I would agree with you. That's one of the reasons why my industry in such shit right now and people like you feel free to call all journalists 'hacks' regardless of their training or experience.

Xenia · 03/12/2011 17:15

Most us teach our chilren their there and they're etc when they are about 7 and the parents are just as much to blame as the school. We bring up our children, not just teachers. I don't find that particular thing much mixed up. I do find bad written English (and the trouble with writing on these kinds of threads is that probably a lot of us are not writing perfectly) and people using words they do not need, commas instead of full stops etc.

I agree that picking out of a hat comes into it. Plenty of employers also have on line tests first before they decide whom to interview and some companies have maths type tests too if that is important in the work. Some will get a friend to sit them although my children have not done that. Others will not let you press send unless yo have a minimum number of UCAS points (high A level grades etc; others vet by university marks in every module over 3 years not just your final grade).

laptopdancer · 03/12/2011 18:54

You are right xenia. There is a great deal of very poor english in your last post.

exaltedwombat · 03/12/2011 18:59

A degree is proof that you can study a subject up to a certain level,

Well, sort of. Do you admit any difference between a degree course and other forms of training? There USED to be...

laptopdancer · 03/12/2011 19:01

A degree is proof that you know at least 40% of a subject up to a certain level.

MillyR · 03/12/2011 20:32

What is most concerning about this thread is the number of people who think rabies is something from the past. I suppose it if fine to believe that, as long as you never have to go abroad for any reason.

Xenia · 03/12/2011 21:02

I would have thought most people knew rabies was still around. Indeed it was all over the press as an issue when the Channel Tunnel was being built etc. and it's something you think about when going abroad to some countries.

Dirtydishesmakemesad · 03/12/2011 21:10

Dh and i were talking about this a few weeks ago. Our 7 year old is learning her times tables at school and we were talking about the fact we dont remember ever learning them the same with most punctuation etc. We had calculators in primary school. We went to the same school so maybe it was just a shitty school unless there was a time when this wasnt taught ( we were in primary school in the late eighties/early ninties).

rhetorician · 03/12/2011 21:18

I was at primary in the early 70s and we definitely did times tables: on our school trip to Devon you had to get a random times table question correct in order to be given the letter that your mum had sent you (which also dates it something chronic)

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