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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Really want to strike but really cannot afford to.

165 replies

toptramp · 28/11/2011 22:34

Anyone else in a similar position? I am a trained teacher but woprk as support staff atm so really on peanuts as it is. Plus I am a single mum who is mindful that Christmas and subsequent expense is looming.

School isn't open to students on Wednesday. If I sign in and out I get paid; if I don't sign in and out I don't. I agree with the strike but I'm skint. WWYD? Am I letting the side down if I go in? I know some staff who are turning up. OOOOOOOO moral dilemma.

OP posts:

LemonDifficult · 29/11/2011 00:20

'That'll be me. I used the government's pension calculator to calculate that it will take me the next 23 years to accumulate the same amount of pension that I accumulated in 11 years under the old scheme.'

That must be frustrating. I would be frustrated too. But where you've not being treated right is being told, honestly: the problem was the previous arrangement, not the future one. The previous one was unaffordable.

Please get that people! The previous arrangement is unaffordable.

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2011 00:21

There's no legal obligation, Lemon. But moral? Given what the whole point of a union is? (which seems to have passed you by).

Basically, if you are able to strike and don't, (because, hey, I've paid my subs and that's enough) you are asking other people to strike on your behalf losing money out of their salary to give the unions the power they have at the negotiating table to negotiate better conditions for you which I seriously doubt that you'll be turning down.

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:21

Thank you for that post fontsnob it does put it all in perspective.

Anyfucker It is unreal - I agree complete negation of rights. Hopefully it (the extension to 2 years service for unfair dismissal) won't get anywhere.

And yes I imagine some awful employers will insist that parents who need the day off have to have it as unpaid leave. Awful. At least my DH can have it as holiday.

I don't even want to do my sums as to what a 1 percent pension will get me at the moment.

I can't wait for this government to be turfed out.

PiousPrat · 29/11/2011 00:22

Lemon, this isn't about the current generation saddling future ones with their expectations for pensions. The last pension negotiation saw to it that the future needs of those currently paying into the pension fund could be met. These new increases are taking a bigger slice of the pie to return less. Where exactly is all that extra going if we already have enough funding to cover what is needed? Some areas of Scotland have such healthy pension funds that everyone could stop paying in for 20 years and it could still meet it's requirements, because the money have been properly invested and taken care of.

LemonDifficult · 29/11/2011 00:23

They aren't striking 'on your behalf' they are striking on their behalf

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2011 00:23

"The previous one was unaffordable. "

It was revised in 2007 to be affordable.

AnyFucker · 29/11/2011 00:24

LD whether it is "unsustainable" as you say depends who you are listening to, of course

holidaysoon · 29/11/2011 00:24

The previous arrangement was profitable was it not?
Surely almost every ps worker has already had a pension raid
I know I have
However it is of absolutely no consequence to me since I have no job!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 29/11/2011 00:24

I spent years and years in Local Government, in the union, striking as and when called. I can't see that those strikes have had much of an impact historically, the government seems to just keep on and keep on changing this and changing that and the unions seem impotent. I remember the last set of strikes where directors and chief officers were required to go into work but for no pay, the rest of us weren't there and weren't paid, but the work was getting done... what was the point of that?

I've been in the private sector for the last six years and nobody is unionised there, not in my field anyway, and the employment and pension rights seem to be just as protected if not more so.

It really is confusing. I feel very sorry for striking members who are going to find this financially very tough.

LineRunnerSaturnalia · 29/11/2011 00:24

One of the problems though is that the employer contributions themselves come out of the public purse because the employer is the public sector, eg local councils, health trusts, and government bodies; and councils for example know that these future pension liabilities are 'unfunded' and, frankly, unfundable.

I don't know what the answer is - although I do know that Danny 'Nice But Dim' Alexander isn't going to deliver it anytime soon.

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2011 00:24

Lemon, as a member of the union they are striking because the union has called upon them to do so, whether they voted for strike action or not.

You still don't get unions, do you?

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:25

noble

If say I earn £50K PA then under the terms of my pension then after 23 years then the pension contribution from my employer would be a total of 11,500. That is 500 per year.

What did your actual figures come out at??

AnyFucker · 29/11/2011 00:25

and public sector workers accepted new terms in 2007/2008, that were significantly less than they had before

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:26

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe private sector employers have been reducing pension contributions left, right and centre.

CardyMow · 29/11/2011 00:26

FontSnob - mucho sarcasm there! . If he could afford to pay into a pension, maybe he would feel more strongly about striking. He earns less than £17k, before tax, and that includes his unsociable hours bonus. Without which he would only earn £14k for a ft week.

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:28

holidaysoon I really hope you can find a job, it was really really tough for me but in the end I finally found a role. Keep at it!

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2011 00:29

choc, I'm not sure what you're asking.

LemonDifficult · 29/11/2011 00:32

OP, if you are struggling for money then go into work.

Bullying is bullying however it's dressed up. There is no certainty that these strikes will achieve anything, and plenty of evidence that they will achieve almost nothing. You don't have to do what a union tells you and there is no moral imperative to do as they say, even if they want you to believe there is. . They are just an institution like any other that you can subscribe to or not subscribe to.

I've got to go to bed now.

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:32

I wanted to compare what the pension would be. So using my example say if you are on 50K in the public sector then what employer contribution would you get after 23 years contribution. As compared with my example of 11.5 K from my employer contribution over 23 years.

Send me the link and I will do it. I think it will highlight the huge discrepancy.

FontSnob · 29/11/2011 00:32

Lemon, I'll repost this for you:

The cost to tax payers in 2009-2010 for public sector pensions was £15.6 billion, £3.06 billion contributed by the treasury (who have borrowed from the pension fund in the past).

The spending on bank bailouts in 3 years was £456.33bn.

Don't tell me that a better deal can't be worked out than the one that they are offering and don't put the blame on the selfish greedy public sector, because THAT is the bullshit.

chocfrenzy · 29/11/2011 00:33

applauds FontSnob.

AnyFucker · 29/11/2011 00:34

Good night LD

CardyMow · 29/11/2011 00:37

So he should strike anyway, and sod the hardship? He has to EAT. If it was genuinely a choice between being on strike and not eating, or crossing the picket line and working in order to EAT, what would you do?

Some workers (especially kitchen staff / porters / housekeeping at my local hospital who were only Tupe'd to NHS 2 months ago) literally cannot afford to strike, or they won't eat, due to the way their pay has been fucked up since they were Tupe'd.

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2011 00:38

choc, but don't you also make a contribution? I'm not sure why you're only talking about employer contributions.

Google teacher's pension calculator.

I don't believe, by the way, that many teachers earn 50K. My point to AF was that my pension is now devastated because of the effects of maternity leave and part time working and how this is adversely affecting women as a group.

It is also not about comparing public to private sector - I don't think anyone disagrees that public sector pensions are generous and that private sector pensions are for the large part, shit or non-existent. It is comparing what we were told we were going to get with what is now being presented, with lots of hand-wringing about unaffordability despite pensions already having been reformed to be affordable.

LemonDifficult · 29/11/2011 00:38

I really DO have to go to bed but...

The 'bank bailouts' payment was made to protect the financial system that houses our pensions and should be considered a tick in supporting all pension funds private or public. It wasn't an either/or as though money had been diverted from future pensions into bank.

Right, definitely going now.

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