to wonder what happens if you are in a wheelchair and in a shopping centre(or big building)

[Sevenfold]

and you have used the lift to go up and there is a fire, how do you get out.
(you can't walk or weight bear and are not a small child)

Depends on the building. Some have special ramps they put on the stairs that the wheels fit into, others have a sling type thing designed to carry a person, others have areas where you wait and will get carried down, and I know of some buildings that have special fireproof lift areas too that mean you can actually use the lift (apparently, think this sounds a bit scary to be honest).

I used to do the practice firewalks in my previous office and the agreement was that wheelchair users were to be taken to the stairs - and left there. That sounds odd, but the stairs were protected by firedoors and by far the safest place to be.

They would then need to wait there until picked up. Only designated people were allowed to do this, not just anyone, to avoid accidents.

sevenfold

Fire Regulations have changed considerably in recent years.

Refuges aren't like that.

They are designed to be part of a fire strategy for that particular building and will have additional fire precautions - both structural and active - including enhanced communications. Having said that they are out of favour with many Building Control officers / fire officers these days.

In addition - as regards a 'work place' each disabled person should must have a 'PEP' (Personal Evacuation Plan).

If the only way a user can safely operate a their building is to configure the work patterns or retail arrangement (or whatever the building's use) is to restrict disabled people to a particular set of floors then that is what they must do. Assess the risk and make "reasonable provision."

It is inconceiveable that: " some one in a wheelchair would be left in a burning building "

I used to work in an old huge department store and we had those evac chairs in the stair wells.... we were told (as manager) to clear your department of people then wait with the disabled person in the stairwell as you weren't allowed to leave anyone on the floor.

We had a bomb threat once and I was terrified, waiting on the stairs trying to keep everyone calm (2 wheelchair users) trying to figure out who to try to carry first, and if, at 5ft 1 I would manage to lift them at all.... was glad it was a hoax!

I kind of get it as getting someone out of a WC takes time, but the idea of them being left on their own, even if the place is deemed safe sounds horrid.
obviously with dd that would never happen as she will always have someone with her and they would have to stay with her.

Pendeen, you are correct, I have a personal evacuation plan at work, I also have a designated member of staff who is supposed to make sure I'm okay. I recently went to a conference in a very large hotel with no bedrooms on the ground floor. Each lift was useable in the event of a fire, with refuges clearly marked should there be an evacuation. I was given a leaflet when I checked in about emergency arrangements in the event of an evacuation. I must admit to preferring to sleep on the ground floor in hotels. I did worry in New York about what would happen if something were to occur when I was very high up in a building.

There is a number of ways you can get someone out if needed. However none are particularly dignified (I guess that would be the least of your worries mind!)

I work with adults with LD and was once caught in a shopping centre fire. There would have been no way I could of got him down in a evac chair. Too big, too complex he would have panicked and been unsafe in the chair. He couldnt walk at all non weightbearing, six foot and heavier than I am.

Nobody stopped to help us. Everyone was just rushing to get out.

Further to that all policies state you leave the person in a chair in a safe area (between two fire doors) and get out.

Number of reasons for this mainly because:

1. you are likely to be the only person there who can advise the firefighters exactly of the needs and condition of the person.
2. if you are overcome by fumes etc you can not raise the alarm for the person.

Not that I left him. Bugger that! All was ok though. Nice fireman helped me and listened to what I told him. (client also had autism so was freaked out enough by the alarms without someone touching him - hypersensitive)

When i was at uni i worked in a big shop we were told of there was a person in a wheelchair in our section we were to take them to the stairwell then alert the emergency services to their location. I supppose this would have meant leaving them behind in a burning building which seems silly when i worked with a fair number of burly young men who would have been more than capable of quickly moving the average person regardless of wheelchair. I never thought much about it at the time!

but you can't always leave that person, like with dd, omg she would be terrified if I left and can't speak.
so no way I could leave her even if the building was on fire.

We got told the same, as we are lone workers there is often just us and the disabled person. Obviously if something happens to us then the services wont know who/where/why etc. We have very complex clients most of which are totally immobile, alot have challenging behaviours, most have autism or are on the spectrum. Not having correct information could cause emergency services to do something which could cause a hell of a lot of pain/behaviour that could make it unsafe for them as well as the client.

That said twice now Ive been expected to leave due to emergency and just couldnt do it. I got into trouble too off work and off the fire brigade.

sevenfold I couldnt do it either. Thats just what we get told. We are more help to the person out of the situation so we can advise as alot of ours have no speech etc.

I'm in retail and we have evac chairs -all gallery staff and duty managers are trained to use them (I managed to get an 18 stone bloke down by myself suprisingly easily)

the rule is, in every company I have ever worked at, is don't attempt to get someone out if the evac chair is not suitable, leave them at the designated fire refuge and then alert the attending fire officer of their presence as soon as the fire brigade arrive

I would like to think I would always help in an emergency but then having been in a burning shop with smoke quite obviously billowing out of the stockroom, and customers refusing to leave the store as they had important christmas shopping to do I have realised people's reactions can be somewhat suprising!

tbh I would just get her out of the chair and try to carry her as you would.

sorry I am scaring my self now so think I will think nice thoughts

I would too.

What shocked me was his chair was nearly tipped twice by people pushing past us to get out.

I was quite glad to get out of the way to try and calm him, whilst frantically assessing how the flying fk I was going to get him out.

There was no way I could safely lift him. 6ft over 14 stone. Catheter, peg feed, autism, challenging behaviour, epilepsy, heart murmour....... ID have probably killed him trying.

Only probably with evac chairs is - most of them assume some kind of sitting balance.... none of my clients who are in chairs have this ability and are in specially moulded chair. So you would have to try keep them straight (hard with dead weight) and try move the chair.

Workshy you are right people react oddly to these things!. I was once confronted by a very irrate man who was refusing to get out of the shop even though there were police evacuating us because of a bomb scare. His small purchase was apparently more important than a trifiling thng such as my life

I am scared to think of getting out of tall buildings in instances like this and I don't use a wheelchair.

How do you sleep at night if you live in a high rise? I couldn't, I don't think.

In my old workplace we were told that the stairwell was a safe haven and therefore fire safe for up to 40 mins so anyone in a wheelchair was to be taken there.

In the residential home that I work in we are told to get out and stay out. I really can't see it happening in practise.