I'm irrationally annoyed, what is wrong with just saying NO! iabu, tell me to relax

[JjingleBeanplusPudalltheway]

Just had a really nice weekend with 5 of the ils to stay.

One has a 16mo son, I have a just turned 3yo dd and 4yo ds. I'm pg with #3 so a bit irrational.

Anyway DN has started hitting, a lot, I mean everytime he goes near them, especially dd who has a nice lump from a wooden orange being whacked on her head.

The response when he hits, is, "no swiping" in the dora the explorer style of swiper no swiping, all of the ils say this. He laughs and soon after whacks someone again. Before school today he whacked ds so hard on the nose it bled.

What on earth is wrong with saying, "no" or "that's not nice"

Ds was this age when dd was born he soon went throught the hitting phase and I always said no and moved him away, he soon got bored.

DN has done this the past few months and at 3 and 4 my dcs are saying things like he "he's not nice" "hittings horrible" etc and its upsetting them. Its greeted with, don't say horrible things he's just a baby he's playing, he doesn't know! Well he won't unless you bloody teach him!!!

Ds even mumbled its not swiping its hitting!

Me and dp were getting irrationally annoyed at the joke made of the constant whacking hitting and shoving aimed at our dcs, I know he's small and its not meant maliciously but surely saying something more constructive than 'no swiping' in a dead pan no emotion voice is going to help.

Aaaaarrrrghh rant over.

Why don't you say something?

YANBU at all. Id be upset too if they werent making any real attempt to let their little one its wrong. I would def be telling him "no" in a firm voice. How else will he learn to stop. No wonder you are ranting. Im fuming for you! I wonder if they'd appreciate the same response from from you if your 3yo took a pop at him? Unlikely

Whenever me and dp saw him do it we said, "no, don't hit dd/ds" and moved dd/ds away. After I said to dp it was seriously pissing me off he commented every time they said swipping with, its hitting though.

I by no means have perfect children but they do not hit --unless provoked, and then only each other-- for no reason and never did when small with out a firm, "no" or "that's not nice/kind" and removal from where they were.

I just see the all to real future of a horrible big toddler hitting all the time.

He also screeches like being murdered when ever things don't go his way, dd quietly playing, in a corner to avoid him, he goes over whacks her and attempts to snatch the toy dd wrenches it back and my christ the noise he makes. Its greeted with, cuddles and, "he's a baby she could share"

He makes this noise constantly unless doing his own thing, so car/pushchair/mealtimes etc

I'm exhausted. Ds got in from school to just dd here and said, phew.

Been there.

Sooooo infuriating.

What can you do though when the parents just won't do anything or take the hint? It is inadvisable to confront them because if you comment on anyone else's parenting you are likely to get murdered. Also if they can't see what's under their nose they are probably either in denial or totally rubbish.

I said something a couple of times when my ds was a) held under paddling pool water, b) clobbered by a metal toy thrown at his head. It still didn't make a difference though.

I'm fuming too, Jjingle - and would have said something myself, though I'd probably be biting my tongue with rage, IYSWIM.
Do the ILs realise that DC was really hurt by hitting? Perhaps they somehow managed to 'miss' it.
I don't think it would be OTT if you say something to them over the phone. If you say it as you've done in your OP, explaining that you know the hitting phase, etc., then you certainly won't be sounding mean or over reacting. You could perhaps embellish with some comparison of someone who hasn't nipped this in the bud - scare them into to being a bit clearer about boundaries with DS from now on?
YADNBU, though.

It sounds as if they're happy to set boundaries with other people's DCs, but not their own. Not looking good for future, then.

I was hoping the huge bruised lump that appeared on dds head alongside tears and sobs of "he is a mean baby mummy he keeps hurting me" over and over might have helped and the blood being scrubbed off ds brand new clean short shirt whilst I swore about unnecessary, avoidable behaviour. Could have pin pointed something to them.

Whilst I was at the midwife clinic dp, also known as mr diplomatic, told them its "bloody ridiculous, babying him when he's being bloody horrible" baby or not we've always said NO and removed them when they've done something unacceptable its how they learn its unacceptable! --he also told dd to hit him back to which she replied, "no its naughty, hitting isn't kind"--

Oh I hate it when parents are like this. How on earth are children meant to learn unless we direct them? Your poor kids, it sounds horrid. I wouldn't be having them to stay any time soon.

They will regret this if the have another and he bullies them or starts at school and is hated by his classmates for being too physical (as in my DD's reception class, the boy has now been labelled and his whole class have it in for him, which I don't think will help him..)

There's not much you can do really except be grateful that your kids are so lovely and hope they start learning their lessons. They don't sound like they're going to listen to your requests at all.

I had a friend with a toddler like this. He's in prison now. GBH. He's 26, nobody stopped him.

Well we've just found out they are having another in 6mnths!

Worrying.

dawn that's shocking but i can easily see how it happens!

Its the children I feel sorry for because they don't control there destiny, its upto us to mould them into decent human beings!

I'd say, take your own advice and speak up... tell them no! Actually speak up and say either you teach your son it's not acceptable or I will, then use the removal and firm no technique that you know worked with your children.

It doesn't help now, but i bet they change their tune the first time he hits the new baby...

I wouldn't have them over again.

Just tell him off next time and remove him. He is family, you are allowed.

There was a child at DDs playgroup who was the same. He ran round hitting other children and seriously hurting them. He was 4 yrs old and would often attack 1yr olds, pinning them to the floor and hitting them or pushing them over. His mother always said "don't do that" in an irritating sing song voice whilst smiling at him and he'd just think the whole thing was funny and do it again.
All the mothers were on constant guard, until one day he chased a little girl choked her then repeatedly smashed her head against a door. Everyone was aghast!
The mother has now had another baby and is constantly on guard as her DS is so violent.
Your children shouldn't have to suffer just because your ils baby is violent and they do nothing to stop it. I'd tell them firmly that they are no longer welcome to visit until something is done about it as your children have been badly hurt and are very upset.

Hmm I was actually going to post tonight with a WWYD as my DD who will be 2 at the end of December hit my friend's newborn today. It was totally unexpected, she just walked over to him after playing nicely with her toys and hit him with both hands flat on his head. She said sorry when asked to and I really told her off but she is my first and I had no idea what to do other than apologise profusely to the baby's mum and tell her NO!. I told her how that wasn't nice, never never to hit etc but I was more upset than her (or the baby it must be said who didn't even wake up.) I just don't know if it went in...she has done this once before with another friend's little baby. I told her off then but obviously now its the second time so I didn't handle it right. She has never hit her friends that I know of, although they all push and shove a bit over toys, but in general she is a really sweet gentle little girl - I would say that though right!?
I know a boy who sounds similar to your DN OP and he is not liked by the other kids or Mums already and he isn't yet two - he hits and screeches in exactly the way you describe, he even held a piece of broken toy to another kids face like a knife at playgroup. I would hate the thought on my DD being thought badly of - so WHAT DO YOU DO? Genuine question from a first time mum - any tips???
PS for what its worth I definitely think YANBU

I think you have done the right thing WrigglyWorm. My DD occasionally hits (she's 2yrs old) I always tell her NO and that its not nice to hit as it hurts people. Children do hit and lash out and as long as you keep reinforcing to her that it is not ok she will be fine!

Weeell, I had a friend whose child was always hitting mine.
She would(sometimes) tell him off and say things like "if you do it again we will have to leave" (they didn't) and "say sorry".
He child would sidle up to ds, and smirking, go "so-ry!"
I could tell he knew he could do anything to anyone, as long as he said sorry afterwards.
After a while ds developed a hatred of the word sorry, and couldn't stand anyone saying it to him!
We stopped seeing that child.

My method: child hits-remove child (no matter how bad the tantrum). Every time, remove the child (if she is young enough just put her straight in the cot and say firmly "Do Not Hit".
This works because small children hate to be excluded and removed from their play.
There absolutely has to be a punishment imo.

I agree with northern - remove the child yourself. Don't make anything big of it, just firmly say something like "No, we don't like hitting" and take the child over to mum/dad. If they are not going to do it themselves then this is your only option really.
It's actually really important that your children see you stand up for them and their rights like this. It's part of how they will learn to do it for themselves one day. So don't let any possible social awkwardness between you and the ILs put you off dealing with it nicely but firmly.
Otherwise all you are doing is giving your kids the message that their rights come below everything! Go for it and don't worry.
I do agree with the person who said that when this child hits their newborn, they will very likely come down on this issue like a ton of bricks!!!!

WrigglyWorm - you've done the right things.

Small children do not know what is right and what is wrong until they are taught - and it needs to be repeatedly as not many children will remember after one 'telling off'

Just think - at only 2 years old they are used to toys that very often require a good bash! They don't know yet that the baby is not a toy.

I'm absolutely with MrsBradleyJames that you need to step on this before your children start to wonder why its OK for this to happen to them but they cannot do it to others.

We had a friend whose dd (same age) would constantly hit and push ds1. Not har denough to really hurt him but enough that he was upset by it. Her mum was totally ineffectual. i put up with it for a while (as ds wasn't actually hurt) but then one day I just thought 'what is this saying to ds? that she can hit him but I won't allow him to do the same?'. no way was I having him feel like that so next time I said to the dd 'we don't hit thats not nice' in a firm voice and then said to ds 'come on ds lets go and play somewhere else'. Her Mum started pulling her up on it after that so there was never any unpleasant confrontation but I'd already decided that I didn't care if there was as ds's feelings were more important than my relationship with this Mum.

Good luck

worm you are doing something and like we've all said they often reach this phase, its common, as long as they see a firm consequence ie, "don't hit" and removal from play it works, ds smacked dd a few times when she was small but reinforcement that its wrong means it stopped fast.

Dp will be having words as were all close and I don't want it to fester and ruin things and I also hope it means our DN will have a chance at being a lovely child again.

The bloody screeching is something else, ill just avoid outings with him!

Rather relieved ianbu I was expecting a torrent of yours were babies once... Etc.