To think that pushchairs should have same priority as wheelchairs on buses?

[SparklyC]

Today - packed bus, I was in the pushchair bit on the bus, another mum got on with a buggy loaded with shopping. People sat in space that could have held another buggy in it didn't get up so both our pushchairs had to go in one space and my pushchair is one of those big all-terrain things! Then bus driver stopped bus for wheelchair user and asked us if either of us could fold down our pushchairs/move? Well, first of all, there wouldn't have been any room for us to sit down with our babies and also have our shopping on our knee or even stored on luggage shelf once pushchairs were on. Also the bus service I travel on has a bus every 4 minutes in the daytime. So the bus driver (who obviously has to be sen to be doing the right thing) got off the bus to tell the wheelchair user that the bus was full, and would he mind waiting for the next one, which he didn't anyway. What does everyone else think? Should we mums with our pushchairs be given the same priority as wheelchairs? Should bus drivers ask other passengers to move so that we can get on, instead of (sometimes) feeling like we are an annoyance and an obstacle to them?

Dawndoonaagain - until people understand the priority of a wheelchair over a buggy (in any circumstance other than a disabled style buggy which I think has equal priority as a regular wheelchair) then these threads should continue and continue.

It may have to come to banning buggies from the spaces Viviennemary, in order to enforce access to wheelchair spaces in one with the law.

I hope to live to see the day when the law is enforced one way or another, as I am tired waiting for (some) people's attitudes to change. I don't see why I should have to rely just on other people's goodwill and sense of decency in order for my DS to have what is his legal and human right. Because every day for us proves that I can't; in the case of too many people, the decency/goodwill just isn't there, as is evident whenever I travel anywhere with him.

If a law isn't enforceable it is not worth having.

In the meantime it is people like my DS who lose out on their legal and human rights. Even if I had never had my disabled DS I think I would be appalled by that as any decent people should be. I'm afraid I don't define the original poster or certain others as decent people.

I would like their attitudes to become socially unacceptable; I think they should be ashamed to even write them. I honestly think that denying a disabled person their place on public transport is construable as a hate crime and should be regarded as such, liable to prosecution.

Think that is too extreme? Try refusing to move to let someone sit down in an empty bus seat next to you because they are the wrong gender/race/age and see if you get prosecuted. That is a fair equivalent, in terms of discrimination, in refusing to vacate a wheelchair space, which in reality is much much worse as you are denying the wheelchair user access altogether.

As other posters have pointed out, this being a 'zombie' thread is highly relevant; we had these issues in 2011, am having them now and will be having them in the future; long after all these regular non disabled toddlers are grown up and the inconvenience of getting around has become a distant memory to their parents.

I am really tired trying to fight and argue this, going through the same arguments over and over again with unreasonable people. It shouldn't be necessary as the law says: it's a wheelchair space so anyone else should move out of it. We shouldn't even be having this debate

I get that public transport is inconvenient for buggy users - DS was a toddler in a buggy once - but it is just not the same, not at all. Inconvenience is something we all have to just suck up from time to time, this is one of those times.

I am just so so tired of having problems trying to get around with DS and go about our business and facing difficulties and obstacles in our way wherever we go. I am just astonished that anyone could begrudge us these wheelchair spaces for my DS…with all the difficulties , discomfort and pain that he has had to face over the years and still faces today, you would think everyone would want to go out of our way to help us.

Dawndoonaagain - until people understand the priority of a wheelchair over a buggy (in any circumstance other than a disabled style buggy which I think has equal priority as a regular wheelchair) then these threads should continue and continue.
I commented on this thread in 2011. I commented in 2013. I always comment. When I, with many others harassed what in the early days was London Transport for accessible buses, I must admit, we didn't think about pushchair users, you see, in those days it wouldn't have crossed their minds to ask a person with a disability to move.
When I refer to the hard of thinking, they are the people who cannot comprehend that a wheelchair space means exactly that. It doesn't mean leaving my dd at a bus stop because she's just a kid and can get the next bus, she can't, she has poor temperature regulation. It doesn't mean putting my dd, or any other wheelchair user in a situation whereby they have to beg or justify themselves to use the one space on a bus. Just fucking one, you lazy idle bastards with a child who in most cases will grow up and be able to access a whole world that mine, and many others can't and never will. I mean how dare they fucking go out in public and remind people of the fragility of their existence, you know, accessing public spaces and being right in their faces. How dare they want the same as you, have hopes and dreams and maybe, just maybe want to go out and choose their own clothes, make up, shoes or fresh fruit and veg. How dare they have chosen careers and meetings to get to that aren't hospital appointments. Oh, and whilst we're on it, how dare they have hospital appointments for which they're late because they didn't think about getting a taxi and used public transport instead.
And breathe...

Oh I think Dawn is more than aware of how a few idiots put their personal convenience over the basic right of a person in a wheelchair to try to lead a mainstream life
Thank you.

Wheelchair/disabled spaces are covered by law. As in they are legally enforceable. Buggy spaces on buses are not. Just like parent/child parking spaces. Not enforceable by law.

You chose to have a child, wheelchair users didn't choose to be in one.

When Dd's were little I was hardly on a bus. I walked everywhere with them. Older Dd would hold onto the buggy. On the odd occasion I was on a bus I happily folded the buggy up for a wheelchair or got off and walked the rest.

Round here if a buggy user gets off due to a wheelchair user you get a ticket to get on the next bus free so you don't have to pay the fare again.

For reference best buggy for bus travel us a maclaren. Small easily folded frame. Some of the buggies out there are like tanks ! I was sensible and test drove a variety of buggies round mothercare before purchase too.

Can see in the future the buggy bus hoggers becoming the entitled parent parking over drives and causing havoc near schools as they don't want to their precious darlings walking a few feet,

YABU. If you can't fold your buggy to let someone in a wheelchair on a bus maybe you should have bought a more sensible buggy. You live in an area where there are buses every 4 minutes, so presumably a city/very large town, so I'm guessing you're not dragging your massive all terrain buggy up mountains, over fields and up muddy footpaths so could in fact take a small fold up buggy for days you are going to be using public transport. Wheelchair users however don't have a choice.

Well said Dawndonna, as always.

The OP's child will be 6 or 7 by now so presumably no longer in their mahoosive all -terrain pushchair and the OP probably no longer has quite such an interest in these wheelchair spaces on buses.

For a wheelchair user like Dawndonna's DD this lack of access is not a time of life that passes into oblivion but a constant source of inequality and frustration.

LouKout: 'Can people not find a better hobby than winding up people dealing with disability.

Pretty much anything would be less creepy.'

This. Yes some people do spend their time finding ways to upset the disabled and making excuses for why its OK to add to their difficulties and deny them access to facilities the rest of us take for granted. They really do stoop that low.

Dawndonnaagain - I am so sorry that your DD has experienced these things, it is just disgusting that she or any wheelchair user should be put in the position of having to beg for the dedicated wheelchair space. There shouldn't be any need to comment on threads like these as they shouldn't need to exist any more.

Just took this picture on a London bus...

I'd say it's quite clear.

Very pleased to report that when a wheelchair-user got on my bus yesterday (in London) and woman with a buggy kicked off about having to fold because the baby was asleep, a busload of passengers turned on her and explained the error of her ways and she folded. Another passenger held the baby and I helped her reorganise her bags, both of whch were her due, but the wheelchair-user got the space which was hers. She (the buggyist) apologised when she got off.

FrancisCrawford Progress happens as it happens. The woman concerned won't do it again, and five years ago the sympathies of the crown might have been the other way in favour of let's just get a move on, if she won't move she won't move.

*sympathies of the crowd. Who am I to guess where HM's sympathies would lie

It was interesting that when this featured on the nees recently. There was a wheelchair user horrified that he should have priority over a pushchair. He said i woukd never force a mother and baby on a bus.
Just because there a few loud mouths on MN on the subject doesnt mean they represent all wheel chair user.

I have 2 year gap and there is no way i could have folded the double buggy held all the shopping and held a newborn and a toddler. We would have taken up more room.
I used tend to go for trains as they were easier to navigate

Glad he knows his place eh

I'd question whether that wheelchair user actually uses buses. When he's had to miss bus after bus because buggies are occupying the wheelchair space his views might change.

LouKout
Maybe he is just nice person who actially can see both sides rather.

this thread is 6 years old. the gf op will have long since stopped using a buggy. why do people drag old threads up?
is it to goad?

Bruffin
Which bit of you thinks my dd is any different to your child? Which part of you thinks that it's okay for my dd to end up in hospital because she couldn't access public transport? Which bit of you thinks you are so important that you have to have the only space for people with disabilities.
Yes, I'm a mumsnet loud mouth. I'm also a campaigner. I fought long and hard (with others) for those spaces. If you want buggy spaces, do what I did, get off your arse and campaign for them.
As for your two year gap, it's a nonsense. There are many of us who managed. I coped with twins and an eighteen month old. There's not way you could have coped? Rubbish. People are nearly always willing to help especially with babies.

PS. By calling us loudmouths you're only showing yourself up.

For the poster who says she can't fold a double buggy and manage the DC's - well get off the bus and walk - at least you have that option. A disabled wheelchair user doesn't!