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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find Jimmy Carr's latest 'joke' really disgusting and pathetic

543 replies

runningwilde · 25/11/2011 14:24

Jimmy Carr has done it again. Nor content with making deeply disrespectful and horrid jokes about soldiers, he has now made a joke about children with Down's Syndrome and the Sunshine Variety coaches that do so much to help these kids and others too.

I used to like him but he goes too far. I really think that some things should not be joked about. Why do some people feel the need to tell
Jokes like that?

Yet, I am also aware of the fact that we can't censor jokes, but I wish some comedians actually set out to make us laugh with properly funny jokes rather than the nasty shit that Jimmy has been peddling again.

OP posts:
Sevenfold · 27/11/2011 00:03

sadly the supporters don't see how dangerous it is

saintlyjimjams · 27/11/2011 00:05

God I don't know. I sometimes stand back in a safe spot and watch reactions to ds1. There are three main ones (1) Confusion (this is fair enough up to a certain extent I think) (2) warm/humorous - i.e people clock what is going on and make a joke of it (3) irritation/distaste. They probably divide up pretty evenly.

I do get fed up with the ones who take exception to ds1 just existing. Such as the shop assistant with the door. He really was just looking at a door (it was a roller door, he loves roller door). DS2 and DS3 have never had that sort of reaction when they were just minding their own business.

It's that sort of attitude that I'd like to see gone really. The casual, passing distaste. It's pretty dull.

It's a major reason why 90% of our days out (and we go out every day he isn't at school) are to one particular beach. He is known well there, all the locals know him and it means we get mainly (2)'s. They'll step in and help me out with the (3)'s as well.

Places where he's not known (1) (2) and (3) divided equally.

AgentZigzag · 27/11/2011 00:26

It must make it very difficult when you perceive people to be treating your DS with irritation/distaste saintly, because low level disrespect isn't tangible or something you can challenge easily.

Could any of them just be curious and it's not transferred to their faces very well?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 00:39

I see a really sad reaction to my DD, people glance and then studiously ignore her as if to say 'mustn't stare at the child with SN'.

It's sad, DD is usually flapping excitedly and trying to say hello. She is 5 and cute, I don't know what they are scared of.

AgentZigzag · 27/11/2011 00:43

But you can't think badly of someone trying not to be offensive and stare at your DD can you Fanjo?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 00:46

No, it just makes me sad for her, wish she would be treated like anyone else.

AgentZigzag · 27/11/2011 00:53

But most people don't pay any attention to anyone elses children.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 01:11

Yes, I do know the difference between not noticing and looking then staring awkwardly past though, thanks

AgentZigzag · 27/11/2011 01:18

Oh, OK.

No need for the shitty 'thanks' tagged on the end.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 01:21

sorry Thanks not at my best in middle of night

AgentZigzag · 27/11/2011 01:26

Don't think anything of it, I'm the same in the morning Smile

FWIW, I'd be chomping at the bit to rip someones head off if I thought they were being off with my DDs.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 01:33

, it's th

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 01:34

Also can't type at night Blush

Was going to say, yes, it's the inner mother tigress Grin

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 01:36

If someone was to shout at DD right now and tell her to go to sleep, I might let 'em off though Wink

entropygirl · 27/11/2011 02:14

fanjo totally off topic but what are you supposed to do when you meet someone with a disability you have never encountered and hence do not know how they will respond to anything you say or do?

I suspect the problem lies in having to think about it. I fail on spontaneity.

I am pretty guarded with anyone I dont know well (in case I offend them in some way) and at the end of the day I can predict how people who are similar to me (scientists) will react better than people who are different to me (not scientists Grin).

The only disabled person I have ever more than met in passing was the brother of my best friend at school who had Down's syndrome. Within an hour or two we were getting on fine, but having tea in a relaxed comfortable setting with my friend there to help out any misunderstandings isnt the same as a chance encounter on a bus.

Basically, is it really unreasonable for people to react in a guarded way to behaviour that they havent encountered before?

Sevenfold · 27/11/2011 08:01

with my dd(disabled and in a wheelchair) smile at her.

TandB · 27/11/2011 08:41

I went to see Jimmy Carr a few months ago - I haven't really paid much attention to him on TV so didn't know what to expect and we were given some tickets. I found some of his material offensive (similar things to the one in the OP) but also a little confusing because I had the impression he was trying to mock the audience by making them laugh at inappropriate things, but he wasn't doing it well enough.

He made some reference to Frankie Boyle's inappropriate jokes and a couple of people cheered and he made a sharp comment about what people will laugh at, but I don't think most of the audience picked up on what (I think) he was trying to do.

So ultimately I found his material distasteful - but I think his intentions might have been a bit more complex than simply trying to offend.

I may be misreading his intentions - I didn't actually see the whole act as the venue's air-conditioning wasn't working and I couldn't be bothered to sit sweltering and listening to things that weren't terribly funny.

saintlyjimjams · 27/11/2011 09:01

It's very easy to tell agent - people don't make it difficult.

The absolute worse case of this I saw didn't involve ds1 at all.

I was in town and went into virgin to browse cd's. Found one went up to pay. In front of me in the queue was a man with moderate ld's. He had an enabled with him who moved off to one side to allow him to purchase his cd's independently. He took a while to get his money out. The girl behind the till started tapping her fingers on the desk and rolling her eyes. She rolled her eyesnat me and mouthed 'sorry'. When the man found his money she snatched it from him and it was a little short so she tutted and asked for more holding out her hand aggressively. When he'd finished she said 'sorry about that' to me. Sorry for what? A man who took a little bit linger than usual to buy a cd because he was counting out his change? He was probably still faster than me when I have my hands full.

I was so angry. I went downstairs to try and complain but was so angry I looked like and idiot. So I went home and emailed virgin rationally. Explained how horrified I was by her behaviour and how it had upset me. The response? They'd spoken to the member of staff and she couldn't believe I would think that as lots of her friend's are learning disableds (my choice of expression).

Now I'd probably kick off a bit more at that wholly inadequate response. Then I just out in place my own personal ban and never went in the shop again. They went bust or whatever anyway. But think how acceptable low level rolling of eyes about LD's is if a shop assistant did it to me about another customer who wasn't doing anything antisocial at all.

Honestly we don't wander around looking to be offended. People have to be pretty much full on for me to notice. And the case i gave above with the door was my helper not me. She wanted to know how she should respond and how she could make the woman understand. I explained people either get it or they don't and it's not her place to educate the ignorant (I wasted years assuming people could be made to understand with an explanation). I'm always with my helpers when we go out with ds1 so we usually just stick to passive aggressive commentary 'oh here we go again' - that sort of thing if someone is being really ridiculous.

I have no problem with comments at all. I don't really have a problem with people having a gawp when he's kicking off. I do object to obvious distaste when he's minding his own business. Emphasis on the word obvious.

Triggles · 27/11/2011 09:05

I don't think it's the "uncomfortable" people who don't know what to say that are truly the problem. It's the people that sneer and make comments. We've had people numerous times make nasty comments not only to me but to DS2 as well (and he's only 5!).

The point we're trying to make is that these types of jokes serve only to dehumanise disabled children to the point where people are comfortable saying things to them and their families in public without fear of reprisal from others nearby. Others who might have said something have also had some desensitisation so they then let it slide and don't say anything to the offender, but instead stand by uncomfortably and allow it to continue or simply ignore it and walk away. And it is precisely these attitudes that then opens the door for hate crimes to come about.

saintlyjimjams · 27/11/2011 09:09

It's nothing to do with people being guarded or open. I couldn't care less whether people talk to me or not. Or whether they smile or ignore us.I object to head shakes (we gets lots of those) eye rolling as described by the shop assistant above, people who get out of their car and follow ds1 glaring (that's happened a few times), I object to 'excuse me's said huffily when ds1 is doing nothing to affect anyone else. We don't get many abusive terms directed at us becuase he has no physical features that indicate a learning disability. My friends who have children who look different do seem to get names shouted at them. I also know someone who had bricks thrown at her son.

We're really not going our of our way to find offense in everyone.

EleanorRathbone · 27/11/2011 09:13

Ooh it's taken me ages to catch up.

Firstly Whatmeworry can I point everyone to this: "It's that's being man-ist and that's OK cos it's OK to hate men."

What's that got to do with the thread? AZ does that give you a better idea as to why I don't bother to engage with that poster?

Second: what everyone else is saying really, I did find it quite amusing that one poster went on about freedom of speech and then directed everyone who didn't find JC amusing, to not watch it and not start a thread about it. Ahem.

Last: this misguided stuff about JC examining audience reactions and pushing boundaries, would be all very well, if the battle had already been largely won. It's very similar to the defence of mainstream porn- Nuts, Zoo etc., claimed that as women are all equal now, we could afford to snigger at their bodies in a knowing, winking way and go back to wanking over pictures of them divorced from their humanity. The prob being, that we're not bloody equal now, I was going to post a long list of why we're not, but that feels like a de-railment so I won't, I'll just content myself with assuming that the people here who are awake, will know that women are not yet on an even playing-field. In that climate, it simply isn't valid to say that we can afford to start ironically objectifying women again, because there is nothign ironic about the violence and discrimination to which we are still subject and there is nothing ironic about the violence and discrimination to which people with SN and other disabilities are subjected. This sort of humour being acceptable, rests on the premise that whichever marginalised group you're talking about, has actually already won the battle to be considered full human beings and now have all the same opportunities and treatment in society as mainstream, middle class, white, heterosexual men. And that patently ain't true.

This idea that comedians don't have a duty of care about how other people take their jokes, is one I find pretty amoral and a bit stupid tbh. Really good comedians like Stewart Lee, don't take that view - they know that as moral, sentient beings, members of society, people with brains and hearts, they have as much responsibility as everyone else in society, to consider the impact of their words in the context of the society in which they are delivering those words. Comedians (or anyone else) who take the view that once the words are out of their mouths, they cease to be responsible for them are simply being lazy and irresponsible. That doesn't mean that Carr et al are responsible for the actions of anyone else, just in case some of the weak-headed accuse me of thinking that; of course not, they are only responsible for their own behaviour, not for anyone else's. What they are responsible for, is considering how their words will be received and whether their act is part of the problem, however well meaning, or part of the solution.

I don't know, some of what has been said has persuaded me that maybe JC is just a well-meaning dullard rather than an out and out cunt. I just think that if you are going to do comedy like this, you actually need to do it better than he and Frankie Boyle do it, because it does have the weakness right at the core of it, that the persecution that the groups they target is still a live issue and if you aren't as clever as you think you are, you will fuck it up. And that IMO is the prob with JC - he just over-estimates his own ability. You need to be really razor sharp to do what Tigerseye describes and frankly, JC is simply not good enough for that.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 09:25

What do they think my DD will say and do that is so scary? She is 5, smiley and often in a buggy. Will she eat their head?

Whatmeworry · 27/11/2011 09:28

Firstly Whatmeworry can I point everyone to this: "It's that's being man-ist and that's OK cos it's OK to hate men." What's that got to do with the thread? AZ does that give you a better idea as to why I don't bother to engage with that poster.

You called me a man when I said something you disagreed with, is why I replied. It is also not the first time I have seen it done, it's a standard MN Feminist trick I notice.

Being called a man did not seem to be a compliment in your context either, in fact i think you meant it as an insult. Hence I noted that you are man-ist, but in your world it's OK to hate men. Selective discrimination and all that, which was doubly ironical on a thread about discrimination.

Anyway, believe me, the only time I ever bother to engage with you is when you make personal insults.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 27/11/2011 09:28

Also i do think obviously that yes, people that are name calling that are the problem.

But I also can't help thinking that if people like my DD were more accepted (and mrssaintlys record store guy) the world would be a nicer place.

And jokes like JC's, satire or not, are not really helping that cause, are they?

Pagwatch · 27/11/2011 09:30

I think people are concerned about embarrassment. It isn't evil or bad to feel a bit awkward. People are used to working within social norms, social rules and we (people) are comfortable about that.
Speaking to someone who may ignore you or shout or behave in an unpredictable way is disconcerting.

The people who cope with ds2 best are this who are hugely confident and are not phased by the possibility of it being a bit loud or a bit embarrassing. I understand that.

I am with jimjams - nervousness or discomfort is fine. Ignoring is fine. Hostility, staring, pointing, shouting, laughing - all a bit shit.

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