to not mind a bit that the woman who murdered her 3 children...

[vinegarpuss]

is being targeted by other prisoners.

(Pulling on my hard hat and waiting with trepidation)

but surely the woman is mentally unwell

why must she be mentally ill

some people are just plain bad

I hope she rots. Unfortunately the prison system is completely corrupt and I wouldn't exactly be surprised if, in a few months time, there's a story involving her having a private TV because the colour in the rec room doesn't agree with her skin tone. Or her having the run of three cells because solitary confinement is "depressing".

Any person who deliberately causes harm to any creature or person that cannot defend against it properly (e.g. vulnerable adults, people with special needs, animals, children...) is the lowest of the low IMO. Full stop.

Exactly, WhatAboutMeMeMe.

These days, Muchausen by proxy is bandied about like every one in three women suffer from it. Actually, it's quite rare and there are people out there who just use it as an excuse to get away with pretty much anything.

It goes from "you cruel bitch" to "aww bless you, you can't help it! Poor, sweet, lovely woman who never ever meant it in a bad way".

(MbP is just an example, there are plenty of other conditions out there that I wouldn't be surprised if people claimed having just so they didn't have to serve jail time.)

DuckDodgers if she had been in her right mind at the time of killing the children her conviction would not have been reduced from murder to culpable homicide on the grounds of diminished responsibility. She also tried to kill herself. DR is very hard to plead and would have had to be backed up with medical / pyschiatric evidence for it to have been allowed.

She has been convicted of killing her children but not of murder, courts do not do that lightly.

ineedacleaner - it was pretty black and white for those children when they were being killed by the one person in the world who was supposed to protect them from evil.

Some people on here are so open minded I'm surprised their brains haven't fallen out. Walk a mile in another person's shoes ?? You could walk a million times round the earth in her shoes and it still wouldn't excuse what she did. And the only disgusting thing I have read on this thread is that a women killed her three babies.

Yeah, I'm judgemental. Only in the bizarro parallel universe that is MN do we have to be non-judgemental to triple-child-murderers

You can be 'mentally ill' and still know what you are doing!

What she did was beyond awful. However, unless we all sat in the court, heard all the evidence, read all the pyschiatric reports I don't think any of us can second guess the court's assessment that the balance of her mind was disturbed at the time she killed her children hence the acceptance of diminished responsibility.

Note- Diminished responsibility is not the same as no responsibility she is still guilty of a crime.

IIRC - Insanity is a complete defence and you would be held to be not guilty by reason of insanity (then probably sent to Broadmoor or similiar)

Good post Chazs

chaz mental illness covers a range of conditions from depression to schizphrenia etc. Just because someone is mentally ill doesnt mean they dont know the difference between right and wrong. She is in an adult prison - and not Carstairs (which is the secure hospital in Scotland for mentally ill offenders).

Its easier to understand for example if she was psychotic at the time of the killings - but from my memory of reading about this case this has not been stated - eg if she believed her children were evil and were out to kill her (as psychosis can cause) it is not right of course but understandable that she would feel the need to kill them first. Someone psychotic like this wouldnt be likely to understand the difference between right and wrong here and wouldnt understand the consequences of her actions - so there would be no need to kill themselves.

And it is not unknown for offenders to fake or exaggerate symptoms to get a lighter sentence. Speaking as a Psychiatric Nurse you would be surprised the people I have seen like this. Again I have no knowledge if this is her or not - but am tired of people immediately assuming a Mother must be mentally ill to kill her children. The majority of mentally ill people I know are more at risk to themselves than others.

Is it easy to fake mental illnesses? I genuinely don't know, but when people link to online tests you can take, the questionnaire type, then it's easy to get an idea of how it all works

I would've thought the courts know a bit more than on line tests sara

The way some people go on, you'd think we should forget about the penal system entirely, throw all convicted criminals into a locked room with a selection of weapons and offer a cash prize and free pardon to the one that emerged alive.

It doesn't matter what crime someone has committed, whether it was callously premeditated or spurred on by a psychosis, how many victims, what weapons etc., etc... .once they've been tried and convicted they should be able to serve their prison sentence without being abused or harmed. That's the response of a civilised society. Not the gleeful bloodlust of those like the OP.

sara I have never worked with mentally ill offenders (only speaking from experience of colleagues who have) but I do have experience of a few people who have exagerated their symptoms - and its usually around review of disability benefits time. Note - I am not intending this to turn into a benefit bashing, people who are genuinely mentally unwell that cannot work deserve their disability benefits. But people for example who fake hallucinations do not.

Valium... Of course they do. Not talking about that though, talking about easy access to psychiatric tests which determine people's state of mind. And how it can be faked/exaggerated to fit the purpose

I work with mentally disordered offenders (females)- you cannot sustain 'faking' a mental illness in order to be placed in a special hospital as opposed to prison. You can try it- but its not sustainable and you will be soon packed off back to prison to serve your sentence.

I must add though that there are many, many women in prison with severe mental health problems that should be in special hospitals. We assess them all time - just not enough beds. Very sad. very very sad.

I've had to hide many threads this evening. There seems to be something in the water.

This one was the worst.

I think the issue we're supposed to be discussing is if it's correct that other prisoners have the 'right' to choose to inflict their own punishment on certain fellow prisoners.

In fact, is it right that civilians are allowed to do this if the woman was walking free?

I don't think so. If I had been directly affected by her crime, i.e. I was the father of these poor children/a family member, I admit I don't know what I'd do if I saw her or knew how to contact her.

But I'm not and I don't think I could bring myself to go out of my way to hurt a stranger in the name of justice.

Having had some experience of a family member in prison, I do believe that there is a mentality that if some (and by no means all) prisoners feel that they can inflict violence and it will be deemed acceptable by others, they will.

Because they enjoy it, or they also have serious issues where they don't know any better.