to think benefits should be capped at minimum wage

[moogster1a]

A little idea that all benefits should be capped at a weeks worth of minimum wage; so 37 and half hours times whatever minimum wage is now ( £6 pounds odd ).
That way no one gets paid more for sitting at home than they would for going out to work.
Out of this, all rent prescriptions etc. should be paid, the same as most people in low paid jobs have to pay for everything.
it might also provide an incentive to go out to work to up your wages if you progress in a company.
Just think it would be a lot fairer.

''I am not for a minute saying that I think this is a complete solution, but if people are stuck in the middle of nowhere with little to take them out the daily grind, what is to stop them getting together with others in the same position, working out some possibilities, and kicking ass locally until a bit of a usable park and the odd sponsored minibus becomes a reality? There are a lot of small grants of a few hundred quid here and a few hundred quid there that can make a big difference if people collectivise.''

Collective apathy.

That's awful Julia,
Surestart centres are the best thing I've come across. I've done several parenting, childcare and cooking classes there, and just been able to get the kids out and be supported by some awesome staff.

So sad for them to close :(

I am a big fan of residents' associations as they can start to get around the apathy thing.

You guys aren't concerned about Surestart centres closing??

i totally agree with the Op.

I grew up in this type of environment. I know literally 100's of people from where i grew up, went to school with who just never bothered trying to get work. When JSA pushed them, they suddenly found a disability. (through drink, drugs etc).

I have many people in my family who CHOOSE not to work as they do get more on benefits than they would do working NMW.

Now this is just one village in Manchester and it is not the worst area by far, i am not naive to think this is the only village in the UK like this.

For everyone saying there are not jobs, well I say bollocks to that. I run a recruitment company, I get 100?s of new jobs daily and not all of them are skilled. Companies pay me minimum of £5k to find them candidates. The reason why they do is because there are not enough GOOD candidates who want to work.

I had a candidate for an interview this week £21k for an electrical maintenance job. Candidate went and talked himself out of the job, I asked him why did he do it, ?cause there is no point coming off benefits for this job, because the job will make him work hard?. Obviously I have simplified this response.

I would like to see food vouchers and work for benefits, good I know there is lots of graffiti in Manchester that needs cleaning, gardening in Parks etc. If you find jobs for benefits, it will give people EXPERIENCE and also show them what it is like to work, improving self-esteem etc.

We can't afford to move Jade80. The good points? A sense of community to a certain point, yes the park might be rough, but all the kids look out for each other and as such have the freedom to play unsupervised.

You're not going to be robbed because it's your neighbours doing the robbing and you'd probably notice if they had your TV

Most of our town is the same as my area, there are only one or two nice areas and they're well out of our price range. It's because of an above average level of unemployment (there are no jobs here, each vacancy has around 30 applicants or more) and a high level of drug problems. Added with poor eduaction due to failing schools and lack of money.

Luckily we are in the catchment area for one of the better schools.

True. I think it depends where you are though. Efforts in some places just result in local twats wrecking any efforts as they've nothing better to do with themselves than make a nuisance.

I agree Boffin mum, I think that being poor and isolated can make people feel depressed and powerless. It's a good suggestion though.

In winter it is very difficult to entertain your offspring in poor weather day in day out, if you are marooned in an area with few facilities and no transport. I've got a PhD in education and a PGCE and live in an area with lots to do, but even I flag a bit over the autumn half term, for example. It's flipping hard for people, which is why Sure Start was so clever.

No Mama, I don't entirely approve of them. Just a personal view, I appreciate they have helped you. Don't think they are all shutting, are they?

mamamoonmim... Concerned about 'Surestart Centres'? No - not given that there are other more pressing issues (in my opinion). The elderly are struggling for actual care, being warm, being fed. They often have nobody to realise any of their needs. No, I'm not concerned about 'Surestart Centres' at all.

You guys aren't concerned about Surestart centres closing??
Not particularly. But then I'm lucky that there are lots of toddler groups run independelty by various churches etc. in my area.
In fact thatere's one for every day of the week and the most they charge is £1 per child. Lots are free ( and you still get coffee and snacks for the kids).
It took me a long time to find out about them though. You have to put in the effort as they aren't advertised like surestart etc. are.
There again, If you're out of work you will have the time to do this, unlike the people in full time or part time work.

Well in a lot of ways it sounds like your children have a good time. They aren't locked up in the house, they are out playing with their mates. So I bet they are reaping the benefits of that, and are less likely to be round your feet demanding organised activities!

Ha ha to the idea of noticing the neighbour with your tv!

MrSpoc I really understand your POV

I actually agree with it, for the people who are on jobseekers (able to work).

I think there are far too many people content to live on benefits and as soon as anybody, be it somebody on MN or dare I say it the government you get a load of bleeding heart liberals saying it is outrageous to even suggest that our current benefit system needs to be overhauled.

There is no disputing that there are some needy people out there that need assistance but there is an even great proportion of people out there who are having quite a nice life being given money once a fortnight.

I was made redundant and claimed JSA for 6 months - I had a pre-school son but also lived with partner. I didn't have to prove anything to get this money but as I had contributed to the system for the best part of 20 years feel that I wasn't taking the p.

I think you have to look at the whole picture and it cannot be right that should you get a benefit that is classed as a gateway benefit suddenly you don't have to pay the bills that most people do e.g. council tax, rent ('cos you get housing benefit) etc etc. Your benefit is just leisure money to a degree as your big bills are taken care of - IT IS NOT RIGHT.

I believe CB should be stopped at 2 children - if you can't afford a child stop having them, radical I know but it is amazing how many middle income families only have 1 or 2 children yet benefit families seem to be able to afford a lot more................

Why do you assume everyone has a dishwasher. Oh wow. Of course you can't possibly be expected to roll up some salt dough with your kids without having a dishwasher handy.

But Mama, we are all talking about people who are able to work, not just Spoc?

oh woe

moogsta, surestart centres provide people with support workers and also education, it's not just mums and tots.
I'm glad you have other mums and tots around you.

I can't actually get into town at all right now, with no car unfortunately.

I think there are other areas to take money away from, before closing surestart centres

I think the easiest thing to do for starters is to clear up existing facilities. So if there is a park near you that is a mess, full of old nappies and needles, etc, dig your heels in and get some community help chucking out all the old rubbish. Just ask. People can only say no. Get the local housing association to help you do a bit of replanting and safety stuff around the swings and slides. Get free gifts from the local garden or DIY centre to help it look a bit better - basic plants, a bit of hammerite paint. And get the local secondary schools involved so their pupils don't come and trash it quite so quickly after you have sorted it out. Then moan at the council for dog bins, start a weekly get together in the park for local parents (1 o'clock club, so what if there are only two of you there for the first month, at least you tried), and see if a youth worker from another area can swing by one evening now and then to engage with the teens that will be hanging out there in the evenings, and find out what else might be useful to ask for.

Yes, some berk will spray a tag on it all the day after you make it all nice, but if you keep going, this will eventually diminish.

The writer and business guru Charles Handy described this as 'lighting small bonfires in the darkness'. That's all you can do, but it's important to do it and stay as active and hopeful as you can.

Sure Start is incredibly important as it deals with the root cause of all this and breaks the cycle. If you close the centres you are only putting off the problem for another generation.

insertcleverusername... Those were just examples. I think your post is over-egging it a little because, for example, flour is extremely cheap - you can buy it for pennies. It doesn't cost much to make some 'shapes' to put in the oven at the same time as the dinner. If you can't actually play with or amuse your children then, what was the point, exactly?

Of course, it's so much easier to keep focusing on what we don't have rather than what we do. I didn't grow up with much money at all, my mum was really struggling but I don't ever remember her being apathetic and other than 'family allowance' that was it as far as 'help' was concerned.

So excuse me when I don't weep and wail that a bloody 'Surestart Centre' has closed.