to think that elderly people living alone in 3/4 bed council houses should not have a choice about whether they want to stay there?

[BlessYouToo]

In fact, they should be moved into one bedroom accommodation as soon as the kids leave home (this should have happened years ago of course). Having a 'spare' bedroom in case the grandchildren come to stay should not be an option when they are in state owned properties.

I have today been to view a council property with a friend of mine who has been homeless for 3 years (in temp accommodation) after finally getting to the top of the bidding queue! She was called to see a 4 bedroom house and it was absolutely rank, the smell made me want to heave. Plaster was hanging off the wall and the whole place was damp as the previous tenant either, did not or could not, heat and ventilate it properly Apparently the house was in a much worse than the state we saw it in today but the council had done some remedial work on it to make it safe so it was a bit better. The garden was also just a sea of brambles.

We were told that an elderly person had been living there and had just been moved into a nursing home. T

I was shocked that the council could rent out a property in this state. I would have expected that they would have made sure the property was up to a decent, clean standard before renting it out as any other landlord would have to do (all my friend will get is a paint allowance if she is eligible) but I am even more shocked that this elderly tenant was allowed to let the property get into this condition. Why do councils not carry out inspections to ensure their properties don't get into this state? Obviously the house was too much for the previous tenant to cope with and surely they would have been better off with a smaller property that they could keep clean?

We were told that many of the properties coming available after elderly tenants have either died, or gone into alternative accommodation, are left in a similar state. How many families with young children are left crammed into tiny flats while elderly people are living in houses much too large for their needs, letting them decay around them? I find it unbelievable that this has been happening.

I feel gutted for my friend as she has been desperate to get a stable home for her DCs and will now be going into a total shithole without even carpets on the floor, just cement. It's a bloody disgrace! AIBU?

Fabby did your ex have to provide any proof that he had the kids?

I ask this because when I worked in housing support the LA would ask for a solicitors letter or court document to prove their was access or shared custody in place.

Now my ex is in a similar position but says i need to write him a letter to say he has the DC for x amount of time every week. He doesn't. It is a different LA though.

Granny has had to move to a different village, about 30 miles from the one she was in to get her 1-bed Bungalow. What's the problem? Why can't your parents move to a different area? It will still be within the Boundaries of your Local Council, so it's not going to be 300 miles away, is it? They can catch a bus, or drive to see their friends where they currently live, AND get to make a whole load of NEW friends too!

Cream not its not a hard to let area people actually want to live in the flats my kids dad lives in, its not a bad part of where it is at all.

And don't underestimate security I'm about to trade in private rented large 4 bedroom detached bungalow .

For a small 3 bed semi h/a house ( still same size family ) and day I move in will breath a sigh of relief that my moving days are over no more worrying about given my notice to. Quit and stress about finding somewhere to live that consider Hb

Or a landlord that openly flouts the rules where I'm to s ares to kick up a fuss in case evicts ne

Respect for the elderly at the cost to everyone else???

So we'll see families living for months if not years on end in bed and breakfast, and we'll be content to watch disabled people and families with DC being forced by new HB rules to downsize to properties that may be miles and miles away from a support network they rely on where they live, and we'll sit back and know that there are families living in terribly cramped conditions which are affecting their health, but that's all preferable to asking an OAP to downsize???

Well it seems to me that so long as OAP's are ok, everyone else can go fuck themselves, and so they should...just suck it up people. If your living conditions are overcrowded, if you are living in abject poverty because you can't afford your private rent, if your disabled partner or DC are being moved miles away from your support network, or you need a larger house for any reason....tough cookie, because compared to your need, your situation living in poverty, your health, your disability, that pales into insignifance at the prospect of asking an OAP to downsize..

Erm because they are my support when I need it so saving a fortune in carers , they also have my step dads mum to consider she has Alzheimer's this is the only area she knows take her away she end up more confused oh and they did not set strict limits they was willing to look at anything within 30 mins travelling of where they are

Well mrs sarcastic maybe those oap need that support that family's or neighbours give or they infact provide support themselves my parents both classed as oap but thru care for my step dads elderly mum

They also support me and my dc when I need it before accursed if drip feed I am a single parent of 4dc one with Sn and disabled myself ( currently in hospital with ds2 and my mums caring for my dc )

So it's not always do clear cut

I've moved about but it's not for everyone especially those who will never be earning a huge amount to make it worth moving. For some people having there family and life long friends is everything, not to me - but I'm a cold calculating wench.

No, it's not always clear cut. I appreciate that. It is not always clear cut for working age people either. Yet OAP's will all be given preferential treatment wrt the new rules irrelevant of their personal circumstances simply because they are pensioners.

How about treating every single case on it's own merits, instead of lumping all working age people/new tenancies into one category, and all OAP's into another, simply based on their age????

Hunty my Grannie did the same, moved from a 2 bed to a 4 bed with 9 DC, then down to a 3 bed when some had left home. After my GF died and there was only GM and my Aunt left (GM was her carer) they moved to a 2 bed flat. Now GM is on her own she enquired about moving to a 1 bed (she is now 80) but was told there was no suitable housing and she should stay put.

She has recently had a new kitchen, bathroom and other work done. She didnt want this, because of the upheaval, mess etc but went ahead as it would benefit the next tenant. She said she won't be here for much longer :( and the council may not do the work in the future.

I said in an earlier post that social housing should reflect the needs of society but forcing an elderly person from their home would IMO be cruel, there are plenty of not elderly people in houses with more rooms than they need as well.

An

And the working age people in houses with more room than they need will be made to top up their rent if they're on HB...OAP's will not have these rules applied to them.

This thread is nuts.

Is this really where we are?

A nationwide housing crisis in one of the richest countries in the world and who gets the blame?

Pensioners.

oh for goodness sake Thehumancatapult do you seriously want to kick grannys out their houses just so you can have it?

Let me give you an example , a real life one.......I know of three elderly couples who were encouraged to downsize....they did so. (one was my mum)

within 3-5 years the tenants who moved in bought the houses. They are no longer rentable council houses.

2 have been sold ....bought for £42,000 sold at £180,000

Had the OAPS lived there until they passed away perhaps the houses would occupied now by tenants who kept them as council houses and would pass them on when they also passed away

"It's the SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO, and even my Granny obviously agrees - she voluntarily gave up her lifetime tenancy on her 2-bed house in order to downsize to a 1-bed bungalow as the stairs were getting too much for her and my Grandpa."

Sorry but lets make it clear, your granny did not move because it is "the SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO", but because "the stairs were getting too much for her and my Grandpa".

So no need climb on the high horse here and display martyrdom to make other people's granny's feel guilty.

"grannys" obviously

Creams

Read my posts please infact I'm toraly the opposite then come back and apolgise . I gave banged on about communtys being important and multi generation

But I can also accept that sometimes when people are desperate it can colour their views as to what is acceptable or workable

Hunty needs a bigger place so that's going to influence her . me I need my parents close to me as over riding the size of that house

I want security of s long term tennacy ANd my kids growing up in a community where neighbours know each so that influences my thoughts

My patents wish to downsize but can't as they need to stay in the area so gimpy say is unworkable

Oh and in kicking no ones granny out I'm moving into a new build which is infact smaller than the private rented place I now have And are relieved to have the security of a long term lease

No one is going to win which ever way

My person feeling is that you shOukd not be able to buy and there needs to be more investment

But that's my personal opion coloured by my views and experiences

Thehumancatpult I do apologise , i knew it wasn't you , it was littlemiss something and someone else ......sorry .I knew the minute I read back my post i'd quoted the wrong person......my sincere apologies

I am quite happy to have my arse flamed when standing up for what I believe in but not for someone else's lol especially when different to mine

So thank you

creamola that is a bad example and has nothing to do with this topic per se.
the elderly people did the right thing to downsize, they can't forsee what the council does with the stock.
I agree this right to buy thing is just soooo wrong on many levels.

If the current situation of a secure tenancy for life is abolished then tenants will have to downsize when their children have left home ie likely to be in their 50s. There won't be OAPs rattling around in family sized property.

Also the government is forcing encouraging social landlords towards 'target' rent - which will be 80% of the rent for an equivalent private rented property in the same area. This will have the effect of discouraging better-off families from the social rented sector whilst having no effect on those on housing benefit whose rent will be covered anyway provided that the property isn't too large for their needs.

If it was to me Creamola, the simple answer is No, I do not want to have an OAP kicked out of their council house so I can have it. I am quite happy where I am and no OAP's were kicked out of my house to make way for me.

The point I am making is that I also don't want to kick families out of their homes, or disabled people out of their homes, or children out of their homes either. And I don't understand why OAP's are exempt when no one else is?? Yes they are old, yes they have lived in their houses for years and years, but not all of them have lived in their homes for years and years and there are tenants who are not yet OAP's and wont be in 2013, and they have lived in their homes for years and years too..why can't they also stay?? Instead of asking me to respect OAP's, how about asking why we don't respect all poor and vulnerable equally, because clearly we don't if we are prepared to boot a disabled family out, or a family with 3 under 5's out, yet OAP's are the untouchables??? NO ONE should be kicked out!!!!

What is wrong with that? I don't want anyone kicked out of their homes at all. As it stands though, the working age families who are on benefits and are underoccupied will be made to choose between paying out more to top up their HB from an already meagre income or forced to move out, which will make way for other families.

Seems to me it's another way for the govt to make the poor poorer. That is what annoys me.

Yet a way to resolve the housing crisis has to be found. Although I don't agree kicking anyone out of their home (or making their home too expensive to live in) is the way.

littlemisssarcastic well there's two reasons a nice one

a) they are old and deserve it

or

b) because the conservative government will look like a total bunch of wankers if they imposs any of the changes on OAPs

Although unless I've completely missed the point , I thought these new rules were only going to introduced for new council house tenants who sign their leases after their implemented? Or have I got that completely wrong ?

Cream yes it is after 2013 though here it was from April