to think that elderly people living alone in 3/4 bed council houses should not have a choice about whether they want to stay there?

[BlessYouToo]

In fact, they should be moved into one bedroom accommodation as soon as the kids leave home (this should have happened years ago of course). Having a 'spare' bedroom in case the grandchildren come to stay should not be an option when they are in state owned properties.

I have today been to view a council property with a friend of mine who has been homeless for 3 years (in temp accommodation) after finally getting to the top of the bidding queue! She was called to see a 4 bedroom house and it was absolutely rank, the smell made me want to heave. Plaster was hanging off the wall and the whole place was damp as the previous tenant either, did not or could not, heat and ventilate it properly Apparently the house was in a much worse than the state we saw it in today but the council had done some remedial work on it to make it safe so it was a bit better. The garden was also just a sea of brambles.

We were told that an elderly person had been living there and had just been moved into a nursing home. T

I was shocked that the council could rent out a property in this state. I would have expected that they would have made sure the property was up to a decent, clean standard before renting it out as any other landlord would have to do (all my friend will get is a paint allowance if she is eligible) but I am even more shocked that this elderly tenant was allowed to let the property get into this condition. Why do councils not carry out inspections to ensure their properties don't get into this state? Obviously the house was too much for the previous tenant to cope with and surely they would have been better off with a smaller property that they could keep clean?

We were told that many of the properties coming available after elderly tenants have either died, or gone into alternative accommodation, are left in a similar state. How many families with young children are left crammed into tiny flats while elderly people are living in houses much too large for their needs, letting them decay around them? I find it unbelievable that this has been happening.

I feel gutted for my friend as she has been desperate to get a stable home for her DCs and will now be going into a total shithole without even carpets on the floor, just cement. It's a bloody disgrace! AIBU?

"Hmm, I actually find myself sympathising with the OP. Private tenants know they never have sufficient security to consider their rented home their own. I'm not sure with the council housing shortages that council tenants are really able to have that luxury either. Council houses exist to house people who would otherwise be homeless. Sadly it's so hard to get one that many people end up bankrupting themselves renting privately, or are indeed homeless. The houses need to be allocated according to need unfortunately, and that means that the size of the house should be appropriate to the size of the household.

Totally agree that right to buy should be abolished - it was a disastrous policy from the word go."

Was that really a diatribe? You might not agree, but a diatribe?

My rent is more than £600 a month and I've won the lottery for life apparently

Well I certainly didn't say that you have won the lottery for life. Is that much lower than private rents in your area? I suspect not, in which case my point doesn't apply.

Oh yes. I do believe that diatribe is the correct word. Your argument was absolutely capitalist without any regard to the emotional or financial investment that the council tenant may have put in. They should just have to give up their homes, that is what you were proposing. No?

It isn't fair to take away homes from the elderly, to remove them from a house they may have lived in for most of their adult lives, where they have friends and neighbours, to move them possibly to a different area (my neighbour if forced to move would end up miles away as there are no council flats in our town - here she has a bus that stops 10ft from her front door and goes straight to the shops - would she be so lucky elsewhere?)

It's all very well wanting a council property, but to want one at the expense of an elderly person (or even one in middle age who has much 'history' with a house) is wrong.

Yes, as a private tenant has to do at a month's notice when the landlord decides to pull the plug. And as many home owners have to do when they can no longer cope with the upkeep of their homes.

It's funny how a redistributive argument is capatalist in this context and communist in others. Don't you think?

capitalist

No, I know you didn't say that, gaelic- I just couldn't believe anybody could.

Actually, it is much lower than the private rents in my area- it's capped at 60% of market rent. It's a 2 bed flat.

What is an extortionate rent in one area is a 'steal' in another. And yet most wages and benefits don't take this into account.

What is it you're saying gaelic if it isn't that things are so bad for private tenants that everyone should suffer the same wrongs?

I am getting really confused. It's late.

However, should a private tenant invest in their home, they are contributing to the landlord's wealth. I have done this in the past and it have negotiated a reduction in rent to offset the capital expendidure. When a council tenant does this, they are investing in the social capital of the country. Rent is not reduced and in many instances rates are increased, so the country's citizens immediately gain from it.

Unlike you, I do not think that people should be punished for this investment. After all, had my neighbours left their property in a 2 bed state, you would not be arguing for their removal.

echt Plenty of people fall on times after having their children

NotJustClassic, my point, many pages back as I've been shopping, was by way of riposte to the seeming justice by the OP.:) Though I still don't think most who are allocated council houses have "fallen on hard times". They are on low incomes.

I have lost track myself. I guess I just think it is equally unfair that some people shoulder all the pain through no fault of their own, simply because they never got that place on the council house list.

If some people are in a better position than others to cope with private rents then they should be the ones paying them. That's short term. Long term, let's do something to improve things for everyone.

Of course one thing that could improve things immediately is to raise the housing benefit threshold considerably. Considering average rents, housing benefit is cut off at a point where rent is still about 60% of net salary (very roughly, not worked this out). That cannot be right.

"What is it you're saying gaelic if it isn't that things are so bad for private tenants that everyone should suffer the same wrongs?"

Actually, sorry not wanting to go totally off topic, but isn't that what people say about public sector pensions of £4000 a year? We have no pension, because our employers are too mean to provide one, so neither should you? Why is that OK, but my points on this thread are not?

I really do need to get to bed now.

"simply because they never got that place on the council house list."

This is not why they are suffering

"Of course one thing that could improve things immediately is to raise the housing benefit threshold considerably. Considering average rents, housing benefit is cut off at a point where rent is still about 60% of net salary (very roughly, not worked this out). That cannot be right."

Agreed. HB should be tied to a % of the market rent of the area- instead it is now a flat rate.

"Actually, sorry not wanting to go totally off topic, but isn't that what people say about public sector pensions of £4000 a year? We have no pension, because our employers are too mean to provide one, so neither should you? Why is that OK, but my points on this thread are not?"

gaelic, that's not ok

I feel exactly the same about that argument.

I agree with you that people who are not at fault should not shoulder blame. Council tenants are not at fault just because they reside in council houses. Government policy and corporate greed are to blame.

Not council tenants, not the elderly, not the poor, not people who work hard. Blaming them is not right.

Me too- goodnight

Not sure if this is what you're saying, but as well as raising the amount of HB available in relation to rent they should raise the eligible income threshold. Considering today's cost of living, housing costs etc. £18k is simply too low for everything to stop.

I really am not blaming anyone, I'm blaming a broken system. Honestly. Good night.

Don't get me started on pensions. Again it is a case of blaming the wrong people.

If I have a contract with my bank/employer, any breach will result in my being rightly punished. I do not get a society that says, my bank/government/employer can breach my contract after 30+years. As is happening in our public sector.

Actually until relatively recently council housing was not considered to be just for those who would otherwise be homeless. In the past to get a council house in some areas tenants would have to be "respectable" working class in steady jobs. People would be interviewed at their home to see if they were the "right kind of people" to be offered a house in that area.

However, things have changed dramatically.

Basic needs should come first. A council house shouldn't be for life - not one specific house. We can't afford to provide subsidised housing for all those who need it.

Right to buy has depleted stock. It must end. So should a lifetime lease. A lease of 8 years would seem fair, with a reassessment of circumstances at that time.

If you have 3 children a 3 bed house is necessary. If, once they've grown up and left home, you are still living in a 3 bed house that's a lifestyle choice not a necessity. The council has an obligation to house you, not to let you have the house you'd like the most. If you want extra rooms you should pay for them. And if you were given a council house as a struggling young family and are now taking home 70k+ pa I think it's fair to suggest that you don't need that property as much now.

The council should offer the choice of moving into a 1 bed council home - what they would offer if you were new to the list as an adult couple with no dependents - or maybe paying a higher rent per extra room, the money from which could help with the maintenance of council stock. I'd also offer people who downsized during their lease eg six months free rent or a lump sum to help them resettle.

If you want estates to be communities, refit or adapt existing stock so that downsizing doesn't have to mean leaving the area you've lived in. Use some of the green space (no ballgames) on older estates to put in purpose built flats with a warden for older people when they move out of larger houses. Convert some of the three beds into maisonettes. Moving shouldn't mean leaving friends and family. Older people often can't afford to heat larger homes, but don't want to leave their area or can't cope with stairs anymore but need the help of family nearby. They should be able to downsize and not go far.

I think the council step back from the properties they own because of lifetime tennancy, allowing them to become run down, damp etc. In return for having more control over the properties, the councils should step up and actually manage them. Preparing a property for new tennants shouldn't just involve removing the window shutters. Properties should be clean, pest free and in a good state of decoration. If tennants damage the property they should be fined or kicked out. If something breaks down the council should be there fixing it the next day. The responsibility goes both ways.

The responsibility does go both ways. I do have to get the council in to do heating/electrical/basic structural things. But it has been made clear to me that I am responsible for things like frozen pipes. They freeze and cause damage, I have to pay.

When my father died my mum's financial circumstances meant that she had to move from a 4 bed to a 2 bed.

So that she did not feel alone in a new community my sister moved home, as did my family. She wouldn't've had to do this had she been in social housing.