to think that elderly people living alone in 3/4 bed council houses should not have a choice about whether they want to stay there?

[BlessYouToo]

In fact, they should be moved into one bedroom accommodation as soon as the kids leave home (this should have happened years ago of course). Having a 'spare' bedroom in case the grandchildren come to stay should not be an option when they are in state owned properties.

I have today been to view a council property with a friend of mine who has been homeless for 3 years (in temp accommodation) after finally getting to the top of the bidding queue! She was called to see a 4 bedroom house and it was absolutely rank, the smell made me want to heave. Plaster was hanging off the wall and the whole place was damp as the previous tenant either, did not or could not, heat and ventilate it properly Apparently the house was in a much worse than the state we saw it in today but the council had done some remedial work on it to make it safe so it was a bit better. The garden was also just a sea of brambles.

We were told that an elderly person had been living there and had just been moved into a nursing home. T

I was shocked that the council could rent out a property in this state. I would have expected that they would have made sure the property was up to a decent, clean standard before renting it out as any other landlord would have to do (all my friend will get is a paint allowance if she is eligible) but I am even more shocked that this elderly tenant was allowed to let the property get into this condition. Why do councils not carry out inspections to ensure their properties don't get into this state? Obviously the house was too much for the previous tenant to cope with and surely they would have been better off with a smaller property that they could keep clean?

We were told that many of the properties coming available after elderly tenants have either died, or gone into alternative accommodation, are left in a similar state. How many families with young children are left crammed into tiny flats while elderly people are living in houses much too large for their needs, letting them decay around them? I find it unbelievable that this has been happening.

I feel gutted for my friend as she has been desperate to get a stable home for her DCs and will now be going into a total shithole without even carpets on the floor, just cement. It's a bloody disgrace! AIBU?

AmberLeaf well said h/a are much more expensive as a rule than council homes but it depends were you live in the country sometimes you would be better off private renting in leeds than paying council rent in London say

"winning a lottery for life"

How can you type that without actually pissing yourself with laughter?

Tethersend - the figures were to illustrate my point, clearly. Just because I used my income and potential rent two years ago doesn't mean I am resentful. I would have been had I ended up in that position.

Average private rent in E & W is £718. I agree that stating a quarter of market value was inaccurate.

Yes I know some HA rents can be nearly twice as much as council rents!

Gaelicsheep, I do kind of get where you are coming from.

4 years ago I thought the same way you did. My living room had a larger sq footage than my entire council house has now. Things happened and now I am here. And it has been an education.

You asked "who of you lives in a council house"? I would ask: Who knew we would be so screwed by the system of wealth that we were part of when things were good?

The problem is not council tenants.
The problem is not the elderly.

The problem is a system of government that promotes the rights of landlords, employers and banks to exploit people however they see fit. Over the right to food, energy and shelter for children and all citizens. And to blame the poor end the elderly when things go wrong.

God the amount of issues we have mad mice, drug dealers, draft home no double glazing, blown plaster, damp I don't feel like the lotto has been kind to me at fucking all.

THe thing is though gaelic that the person earning a decent income and benefitting from 'subsidised' rent, would definitely not have had that sort of income at the time they were allocated that property.

If you take the view that as soon as their circumstances improve they have to leave, you risk ghettoising areas. No one wins in that scenario. Not the tenants, many of whom will be women and children (whom most people in poverty in this country consist of). Not the wider society, who will almost certainly be affected by the subsequent rise in crime brought about by disenfranchised and disaffected youth who may be small in number but have a presence out of all proportion with their number (riots anyone?).

Whereas if people in all housing situations and all levels of income are encouraged to take pride in their housing and to mix (more likely if they are there long term), you create much better social cohesion, greater social mobility and crime falls.

So would you have to move out the day your youngest child was 18, or would you move from a 3 bed to a 2 bed to a flat as each child became adult? Just wondering.

*The problem is not council tenants.
The problem is not the elderly.

The problem is a system of government that promotes the rights of landlords, employers and banks to exploit people however they see fit. Over the right to food, energy and shelter for children and all citizens. And to blame the poor end the elderly when things go wrong*

Hear, hear!

But maypole you said yourself that without your council house you couldn't afford to eat. Some people are in precisely that position.

I see that sunshineandbooks I really do. But what to do honestly? Housing costs in this country are simply ludicrous. Who is going to do something about it? Not this shower that's for sure.

I am in a HA property, a 2-bed. My rent is £500pcm. Privately it would be £900 pcm. Housing Benefit will only pay up to £690 pcm in my Council for a 2-bed. Yes, my rent is just over half the cost of a private property the same size - but my rent was hard enough to cover when Ex-P was living here and working FT for a low wage - it was HALF our monthly incomings after tax, before any other bills. To have gone private - it would have taken almost his ENTIRE income...

But council tenants are not responsible for that, gaelic. In any way.

I guess it comes down to what sort of outlook you have:

1. Everyone should have it equally hard.

1. We should strive to make things better for everyone.

I'm not saying they are. But neither are the people on the other side of the fence who entered the same draw and lost.

The acute shortage of social housing was always going to occur eventually in consequence of the great council house sell off of the 1980s....a nice enduring legacy of Thatcher's Britain

It's that we should be angry about. Not the elderly who have the houses others feel they are entitled to.

This all started because I expressed surprise that people renting council houses could afford extensions and loft conversions (I'm still amazed they're alllowed to do it as well). I was never ever talking about chucking people out of council houses and plunging them into poverty.

"Housing costs in this country are simply ludicrous. Who is going to do something about it? Not this shower that's for sure."

gaelic, I couldn't agree more with this.

If you are not claiming a connection between council tenants/housing and families in poverty due to high private rents, then I am missing your point- why do you raise the issue?

I'm not claiming a connection, other than I don't think the limited number of houses are always being occupied by the right people in terms of relative income and need.

Private rents are extortionate. I feel that Council rents are too low, Private rents too high. Housing Association rents are usually mid-way between the two, and IMO are a more 'true' indication of how much a property is WORTH in that area.

Why shouldn't ALL rents be brought into line? Council rents raised to HA levels, Private rents dropped to HA levels - sorry, but SCREW the BTL LL's who may lose some MONEY.

Why SHOULD a Council or HA property be for life? I fully expect to have to downsize when if my dc leave home (they may not all be ABLE to leave due to SN) but if they are still with me, at least two will be able to live independantly, so if I have a 4-bed soon, then in 18 years, I could downsize to a 3-bed (one for me, one for DD, one for DS2). If DS2 is able to live independantly, I'll then downsize to a 2-bed. No problems with downsizing if it stops someone in my position in the future from having to put up with severe overcrowding.

Social housing should be for need, not for life. And that is coming from someone that due to disability and caring responsibilities, is likely to always be a Social housing tenant. If you want your own home, you buy it. If you rent, it will never be your 'forever' home, and you need to accept that if you either choose not to buy, or can't for whatever reason.

Re Council/Private rents, surely some price difference is inevitable in the same way as my (Ex-council) house on a council estate is worth about £100k less than if it was a few streets away where the houses are all privately owned?

If you're a council tenant then you're not always living in the nicest parts of town...renting privately may mean living in a better (ergo more expensive) area.

There's quite a lot that can be done IMO, and now is the right time to do it, when the country is desperate for economic growth.

Look at the hugely successful car scrappage scheme brought about to shore up the flagging car industry and boost the economy. A similar scheme for home building would boost the economy and provide more affordable housing for HA tenants, private tenants and home owners.

Encouraging businesses to move out of the South East would allow people to be able to buy the much cheaper properties in areas where no one is buying them because there are no jobs going to pay the mortgage. Conversely, property prices in the South East would fall (though this would probably take decades realistically).

Back in history, the South West was the major economic centre in Britain. All things are possible even in a free market economy. It is possible to create a market and influence it's direction. Indeed, that's what capitalism is all about.

Gaelicsheep, I was the one who mentioned the investment of council tenants in extensions and loft conversions in response to your diatribe about how older people in bigger council houses should give them up.

It is not where you started, it is what you are using to justify a ridiculous arguement that the elderly and council tenants are responsible for the housing crisis.

Government, banks and business are responsible for the housing crisis. Why is that so difficult for you to you?

my x mil was one of those old people your talking about she did eventually down size to a one bed bungalow after being pressured by the council over a period of time .the reason why she hung on to a 3 bedroomed house was because her husband and one of her daughters had died in that house and she just didnt want to let go,shed got grandchildren living a few doors down and had got very good neighbours and good friends living close by.

i hear where your coming from but is it really fair just to take all that away.imagine if that was your own mum.

I can tell you that renting privately, at my end of the market, can be hobson's choice. The only place we could afford was 30 miles from work and it was the coldest house in the world ever.

To put this into context. My mortgage is £250 a month - I am VERY lucky on a low interest tracker. The lowest rent around here is £600 a month and there are precious few of them. We would be in trouble.