... To ask if you agree that "pikey" is a racist term and not just "slang"?

[carabos]

I am following a thread on another forum where a poster has used the word "pikey" in the context of a discussion about burglary. I called the poster on it and pointed out that I believe the term to be deeply offensive.

Another poster has come on and said that the first poster has been "naughty" for using "slang" and to watch out for the politically correct brigade. I am . AIBU?

yawn

i'm irish and get called a pikey all the time

must admit its better then being called 'mick' or 'paddy'

I am a traveller and the term pikey is often used amongst my peers as a form of jokey insult. However if it was used against one of us by someone from outside of the travelling community then yes, it would be a racist term; it is used to imply a dishonest traveller.
And no, I have never nicked lead off a church roof or tarmacked anyone's drive.
I have lain a few patios though, quite well.

Travellers are not an ethnic group, gypsies are. According to the gypsies I went to school with they were definitely not travellers but belonged to the romany group. To call them travellers would be considered a racist insult.

Non-travellers are just as likely to steal things as travellers.

Travellers are defined as a minority group, and I've never heard of Traveller per se being taken as a racist or offensive term.
But (confusing though it probably is) the Traveller / Roma or gypsy mix up might be a bit like Americans and canadians liking to be kept separate and not lumped as one - same continent, same accent to the unused-to-it ear, etc.

Not really racist as it's not possible to define the 'race' of people that it applies to, more the cultural behaviour. It might be Culturalist though. Does that count as offensive?

Can't remember if I've seen a thread like this before on here. This thread will run to 1000 posts if not deleted before then

I don't think it really matters if the term is considered racist or not, because I totally agree with MrsWifty it certainly is bigoted, hateful and highly offensive. However technically travelers are considered as a ethnic group so it is racist (it's not after all a term used to describe any other group, if someone who isn't a traveler is being described as a 'pikey' it is because they are being compared to a traveler). I do agree with Blu though travelers are a bit of a mixed group, some recently adopting a traveling lifestyle, others descending from Irish tinkers, and a small number from the Roma. I always got the impression that it was the Irish tinkers who were particularly termed pikeys, but that may just be two different sorts of racism being conflated.

Is the implication in the other thread that because it is slang it is OK? Plenty of racist/disablist/sexist/bigoted terms are also slang, it's not some sort of 'get out of jail free' card.

I remember watching a documentary on Paddy Doherty, who said,You can call me anything you want.. but never ever call me a Pikey.

I also have a friend who is of Irish Traveller descent, i know he gets really angry at that term. It's highly derogatory, basically implying the person is a thief and dishonest, as Trulyscrumptious says.

Chav is also offensive

Of course it's offensive, that's kinda the point. But it's not racist, and nor is pikey as there is no race.

I am not calling Roma, pikeys nor would I in a million years call any Irish person a pikey.

A pikey to me is someone who scrounges and does absolutely naff all for society. They may travel, they may not.

I am centre in terms of politics, a bit left on some issues, a bit right on others. Bit the damage that is being done by some small minority insisting, on purely ideological grounds, that every single possible "group" of people be recognised/revered/respected regardless of what they offer to society just appals me.

Yes, I absolutely stand by my comment that debating the word pikey is a waste of time. There are so many more serious miscarriages of justice that deserve our attention.

But poppaddum,the word 'pikey' is used to denigrate various ethnic and cultural groups. Just because you chose to apply it to your own personal untermenschen doesn't lessen it's racist connotations.

Minority groups are not after special treatment, just equality BTW.

So what damage is that then? I'm curious as according to your logic it would have to be very large and noticeable to appall you.

One of our local schools included in it's catchment a traveler site, and as a group they did have particular educational needs which the school needed to take into account. The local PCT also had an outreach program to the site as there were specific health needs too. As a group they suffered from poor education, health problems, lower life expectancy and significant discrimination. It wasn't in general very recognised discrimination because I suspect a large number of people thought that they 'deserved it'. Defining travelers as an ethnic group helped with funding and also means that people can be told that it wasn't acceptable. Because somehow saying that behaviour is racist is so very much worse than saying it is bigoted, hateful and highly offensive.

PoppadumPreach,it may be a waste of time to you but try telling that to a Romany gypsy mother whos 10 year old dd has come home from school distraught because she has been called a "dirty stinky pikey"

Looks like it's Professionally Offended night tonight....

Ooh ignorance alert. I didn't know pikey could be racist. It's thrown about a lot in my part of Suffolk.

carabos

I had not heard the term before but having read the thread and a few links, yes, the word could be described by many as racist.

But what no one has yet queried is why you, in particular, find the term " deeply offensive "?

I didn't accuse you of being a Nazi PP(touched a nerve there, did I?), you extrapolated that from my (correct) use of the term untermenschen.

You can't stereotype a group of people as lazy, worthless and of no benefit to society, and not expect to get called out on it.

pikey is often used round here when the travellers are about but then the ones we get here are the nasty ones :(

Pikey is racist and nasty.. end of.

I don't want to go into vast detail, but trust me, people have been arrested for the use of the word "pikey". It is seen as a racist and discriminatory expression.

I don't think it's racist, but it is offensive

pendeen I find the term deeply offensive because I believe (d) it to refer to gypsies / travellers - I haven't heard it used as an alternative for "Chav" for example (not that Chav is ok).

The race argument on here is interesting to me because in my own ignorance I didn't realise that it is ok to insult travellers because they are not a " race" as such. It's all much more complicated than I thought, but I still think it is offensive and especially so in the context it was used on the other forum. The poster casually threw it in as an explanation for a certain type of thieving and then a third poster flamed me as "the politically correct brigade" when I objected.