To be worried about all this Euro crisis stuff

[hiddenhome]

Seriously, what's the worst that might happen to the UK?

What if loaves of bread end up being £100 or the banks refuse to give us our money?

Are we safe in our beds?

Govts. borrow money from other Govts or countries. China is cash rich as are some of the Arab countries so these people loan money in return for interest payments or innvesting in Treasury Bonds/gilts etc ie money that cannot be defaulted on (in theory). An Economist can prob. explain much better.

thanks LemonDifficult

Would like to offer my mattress to anyone who can't fit all their money under theirs

@ planetpotty

We have Ikea mattresses which are extra large

Pedallleur - understand your theory, but Iceland didn't do to well?

Not even the economists can agree exactly what will happen.

But since we're already headed to that hell in that handbasket, thanks Coalition I wouldn't worry too much.

There's fuck all you can do about it.

What will happen is that there will likely be a reset of the middle class weath that's been accumulated during the 'boom' years.

It's already begun, with the middle classes feeling the influence of inflation in the last year or so.

Essentially, the rich will take their real money (I'm not talking about ISA savings and crap like your local clerical worker's pension pot) and invest it offshore in places where the true value is less likely to be eroded. Gold has always been a good bet, but there are other things which can ensure longer-term protection. The rich have access to banking institutions, advice, and connections that others do not.

Whilst the wealth of the poor is less of an issue - since they never had any to speak of, they don't lose very much. I suppose in British terms, we're talking about the underclass and working class here - your typical family on duel NMW jobs, who don't have pensions or rainy day funds to lose value on.

And then there's your middle classes, who will witness the erosion of the bubble they thought they were safe in. They may have paid into a pension pot for the last 25 years, they may be employed in middle-senior management in government departments, they may have a second home and mortgage for a family home in the country. But essentially they still need an income from their day jobs, and whether they like it or not, they are the ones who truly stand to lose in the long term.

It's happened many times before; it will happen many times again. For one of the most recent examples, just look to Russia in the 1990s.

simplistically ... no work ...dont get paid ...dont get paid.....cant pay tax ..... no tax ..... no welfare state ....no welfare state .... no one eats..... dont eat ....crime rises .....crime rises lawlessness ensues ..... you get a society meltdown.

It wouldnt go that far here , says she remembering the riots in the summer, where lawlessness did ensue ..... which shows civilisation is a fine veneer really.

History goes in approx 200 year cycles. We are just coming upto a 200 year peak of utter imorality (Jeremy Kyle style) and criminal peaking where there will be a total breakdown of values and then there will be a period of, for want of a better word, a return to quite Victorian values.

on the brightside, as bankrupt as the government likes us to believe it is, we are actually still quite wealthy. Although paper money is of fuck all value since Gordon Brown sold off the gold reserves on the cheap.

Our problem comes from the fact we are an import culture. We cannot grow enough food to sustain our population.

troisgarcons you've hit upon one of the key issues - crime rising.

I forgot to mention that, but essentially it all feeds back into what we're already starting to witness.

Libraries closing, youth schemes being curtailed, non-essential type services being cut - these things drip feed into the lower rungs of society until in a few years' time the "up and coming" bad neighbourhoods decend into the sink estates the local councils have worked so hard to get to grips with in the boom years.

shrug

trios I vaguely remember this from school I think was described like a pendulum, society swinging over the years in values and has done historically.

Bet footlocker is shitting itself

The one thing we can be sure of is that UK will inflate its way out of debt. That is the only solution. Middle class savers will suffer the most...life is not fair, is it?.

'Libraries closing, youth schemes being curtailed, non-essential type services being cut - these things drip feed into the lower rungs of society until in a few years' time the "up and coming" bad neighbourhoods decend into the sink estates the local councils have worked so hard to get to grips with in the boom years.'

In the end, all politics is local and yes, this may be what disaster looks like. But people have also claimed that crime rises when envy does (i.e. when some parts of society are really booming). There may be a blitz spirit/all in this together mood that society can benefit from - if not financially.

Others have argued that the enforced reduction of people's ability to lean on the state will break the cycle of worklessness in somehouseholds, and in other people may propel them to entrepreneurship out of necessity.

Again, just another thing that it isn't possible to predict. (I'm an optimist, as it happens).

There may be a blitz spirit/all in this together mood that society can benefit from - if not financially.

But the point is, Lemon, that this doesn't happen.

As I discussed above, the rich protect their assets; the poor never had any of note; the middle classes roll back into the lower rungs; like a wave going in and out, with the lines along the shore going back and forth, but ultimately staying the same.

Sorry, I meant... when I said "that this doesn't happen.".... I meant, it has NEVER happened, historically.

Pigs might fly yet

It has happened. The Blitz. And many many other scenarios of togetherness in the face of adversity.

In fact, tough circumstances is what has historically always banded us together in tribes/communities.

The fractured society is a result of wealth making it less essential to lean on each other.

There is somethng very sinister that happened in the last fortnight.

In effect, the EU deposed the Govts of Greece and Italy and imposed technocrat Govts made up of former EU Commissioners, EU officials and former ECB members that wer epicked in Berlin, Paris and Brussels. On top of that, I read today that Irish newspapers are reporting that Irelands upcoming budget was sent to Berlin (and other European capitals) for approval before it is actually revealed to the Irish people.

Deposing Govts and imposing puppet Govts leads to revolutions. There will be violence and civil war as a result. I have no doubt of that.

I don't agree The Blitz 'spirit' just had good marketing and PR The truth isn't exactly the rosy picture the government would have most people believe...

No, the blitz spirit was not PR. (That's bordering on offensive.) People go out of their way for each other all the time in dire circumstances. Hence the strength of community over individual in times of distress. An innate and eternal mechanism of self-preservation that is likely to withstand the closure of a library.

MoreBeta - I think you are right in that disaster is more likely to take the form of reduced democracy and the rise of an international cabal of decision makers that are dislocated from electorates, who will take 'difficult decisions' for us on our behalf.

I thought our investments were going to be guaranteed by the govt?

They might guarantee the investment but there's no guarantee of it being worth anything.

For example, you could save/invest £10k and be guaranteed to get your £10k back but rampant inflation could render its value worthless.

Zimbabwe they saw inflation of 200,000,000%+ in 2008. Your savings don't mean a lot under those circumstances.

I have been saying for months, MoreBeta, that the only thing Cameron hasn't said is "let them eat cake." But he might as well have.

There is already the stirrings with the 'Occupy X' actions. I'm just waiting for the violence to erupt.

Reading about the effects of the great depression is a good place to start.

Ironically a product of that was to seperate 'casino' and normal banking practice ( sound familiar ? )

Given there were about 5 billion less humans then I think we're in for a shock.

General effects ? Hunger, mass unemployment and social unrest.

Like they used to say about Tory governments, it's fine as long as you're not ill , poor or old.

Right you all have me really worried now!

I never thought I would see what we all saw during the summer riots. Civilised society is much more fragile than I thought.

Blitz spirit is what this country specialises in. If I had five mins with the PM I would say encouraging community spirit and local initiatives to get us all through the hard times without it being too grim, street parties, swap shops, kids free days out/youth centres. But guess this is exactly the kind of thing the cuts will hit.

Is it worth buying gold instead of keeping investments going?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

This worth taking a look at.

I really don't think that we will go down the route of mass civil unrest, the summer riots were a ripple effect.