to think 4 is far too young for school...

[StrongestMummyInTheWorld]

... and to wish all children didn't start school until age 7?

I don't want to take my child out of school and have her have a totally different experience to most other kids. But the night-terrors, screaming nightmares and worst of all the difficulty separating the bad dreams from what really happened is pretty hard to take. Other parents tell me their kids are similarly distressed. So what are we doing to our children starting them so young?

I'm in Germany with 3 dc - 1 who started school in the UK 6 weeks after her 4th birthday (before we moved here), 1 who has just started school 6 weeks before his 7th birthday and one who'll start next year just after he turns 6.

I agree wholeheartedly that 4 is too young - dc1 used to fall asleep in the car on the way home sometimes. She coped ok with the work and liked school but she was way too little in my eyes for full time education.

Dc2 on the other hand has spent the last 2 years since we moved here going mornings to kindergarten where there was no formal learning and has in September started school. I think its a great age to start. His motor skills are great for learning to write really well from the very start. They encourage the parents not to teach them to read before starting school but they all pick it up so fast. They say that nearly all dc will be reading within 1 term. It is definitely a more formal setting but they are only there mornings (ds1 will be home in a moment with 20 mins of homework and the afternoon free to do whatever) so its not too stressful.

And dc3 is 5 and in kindergarten every morning and despite being a bright thing isnt slightly bored. He gets to play with his friends for 4 hours there then come home to do whatever we've planned.

So i think YANBU.

I wonder if the DC personality plays a role as well as age.

DD1 was just 4 when she started literally days after her birthday - loved school but was awful at home and first term did have night terrors. As well as being young she is bright but also very shy, nervous, with dislike of loud noises, dislike of crowds.

DS late spring baby - just started - horrible at home very tried and wild despite very early bedtimes, very stressed by environment though his behaviour in school is great. Had disturbed sleep and few nightmares start.

In both cases spoke to teachers - no reasons doing well when there and seem happy. Hoping DS follows DD1 lead and settles after Christmas.

Know DC same ages who had no of these issue but their personalities are very different - much more outgoing than my DC.

You can't just wish children start school when they are 7. Because they don't and you can't do anything about it unless you decide to HE or enter politics - and even then your child is in this situation right now so it's too late for that! What you need to do is find a way of sorting the problems that are occurring and forget about the fact that you don't agree with the system.

X posts Bucharest - think our countries must be different. The dc here are actively encouraged here not to learn to read before school but at 6 or 7 they are able to learn to read much faster.
My dc1 is now in the equivalent of high school here and only going to school at 6 or 7 has not disadvantaged any of those dc.

YABU, I considered keeping my summer baby back a year( there is only one intake a year at his school) was talked out of it by everyone and now i have to admit i was wrong he absolutely loves it and is a different child he clearly was bored at home and lacked motivation now he is up and ready every morning without fuss and is both eating and sleeping better.

You don't have to sent them until they are 5 could you not consider this and are you sure all the night terror stuff etc is school related?

Is your dd in nursery attatched to the school OP, or reception class? If it is nursery they don't have to start school until the term before their 5th birthday ( I think!) I kept ds back as he was youngest in the nursery and not ready for full time ed.

WhoopeeCushion we are all in politics. We talk, it's politics.

Clearly from what many posters have said 4 is fine as a starting age for many children. The group of children I know may all be highly strung or maybe there is something unusual about the school even though it seems at least as lovely as all the others I know of.

Our twins, 4 in July, started full time in reception from the first day and it is too much for them. They are knackered by the end of the week and after school playdates have become a challenge. They've both had nightmares several times but this seems to have abated.

4 probably isn't too early, but it is too early for full-time (9:00 to 3:15) school.

They do enjoy it and are learning a lot, they also seem popular (though this is probably because they're identical and half the size of other kids in their classes), but I think they'd cope better with a more gradual introduction.

xposted youtalkintome, the point about not wanting to hold back until 5 is that all the other children start at 4, so their friendship groups and so on will be formed. A further problem is that with most 4 year olds being in school, the playparks are empty during the day, and the children at school are too tired for playdates after school. So to keep a child back the only option is to put them in pre-school with the 3 year olds and 2 year olds.

For the other children who are upset a big factor is toilet accidents, these are potty-trained kids, who are very distressed especially as school teachers get very cross with them or seem not to notice and leave them sitting in soiled underwear all day on several occasions. Then got complicated and whole friendship group has been distraught about this. Honestly, the toilet could be the stress factor to be honest.

That sounds awful strongest - there is no way that any children in DS's class would be left wet or shouted at. My DS adores his teacher and his TA and they are kind and really warm, smiley people. Reception teachers shouldn't get angry at children if they have the occasional accident and I would seriously be concerned that there is wetting going on with children who are usually pretty continent.

If toileting is the cause then this is a school handling issue.

The DC do have accidents at the my dc school - but the dc are treated sensitively and reassured - even repeat offenders such as my DD1. The teacher and school worked with us to get past the problem. This hasn't so far been an issue for DS.

I don't do play dates this term after school - so that is not an issue. TBH don't know many parents who are with reception aged DC at the moment.

If teachers are getting cross and leaving upset children in soiled clothing then that has nothing to do with the age the children start school and has everything to do with lack of care. It's not normal for the quantity of children you describe to be having this level of anxiety and stress. Take it up with the head-teacher directly.

YABU to think that 4 is far too young for school.

I can only go off my own experiences. My eldest didn't do any pre-school/nursery until 4 and I was worried how he'd settle. He settled brilliantly. He was nearly 5 when he started so maybe that's why, 4 seems SO young and some of his classmates were only just 4 when they started and I have to admit, they were the children that found it harder.

Fast forward 4 years, all the children in his class are happy and settled. My eldest is thriving, and for him a class of 31 is ideal for him as he has lots of friendship groups.

My youngest has attended pre-school since age 2.5yrs and adores it, he starts school proper next September and again, will be nearly 5 and more than ready... he's ready now to do full days, but I'm not!

I'm not saying MY experience is 'the right one' but for balance I do think it important that people know that large class sizes and young starts aren't always bad.

op it must be awful seeing your child go through this and I feel for you, I also wonder if the night terrors are so bad because your not talking about them gently? I am not a believer in avoidance. My eldest used to have night terrors, and used to sleep walk and wee in cupboards, bins, my bed (!) - I didn't want him to feel judged or exacerbate any problems, but it wasn't until I dealt with them head on (but very very gently and kindly) that we began to resolve certain issues... turned out to be something rather minor from my point of view, but it caused lots of stress for him.

I do think every child is different, and state education needs to be more flexible to accomondate these differences. Not sure how it could be done, and I'm sure it would be a logistical nightmare, but no child should suffer because of school, school should be inspiring and wonderful in the early years.

Personally, I would prefer it if schools had an intake at easter in addition to september.
DD will be 4 and 3 weeks when she starts school, and I would probably have sent her the following easter when she was 4 and 8 months if I could.

Although I can keep her in nursery for another year, and start her at school the following september when she is 5 and 3 weeks, I have to make a decision by January as to whether she will be going to school next September.
Once I have enrolled her at school, the nursery place is filled by another DC, so if she doesn't get on with school, there is no opportunity to go back to nursery.

Of course, it feels like she is just too young, especially since I have to make the decision as to whether she will go to school or not in september and I have to make that decision before DD is 3 and a half!!

I look at DD and can't imagine how she will cope with school, she is very much a toddler still.

I think 4 is about right to start, but I think they should be on half days until 6.

Today - I agree with you. Other days I don't. My dd was 4 in August and is sturggling to settle in to school. She cries on leaving and then on and off through the day. I see the younger ones happily tripping of to pre-school and a big part of me wishes she was still with them.

On the other hand some days are good days when she's excited about school and full of all the lovely things they've been doing.

I'm debating with myself whether to take her out and try again in a term or so, or whether this will just make her more unsettled and out of the friendship groups. Gah - who knows!

RealLifeisForWimps - that would be my ideal. As a SAHM I could accommodate it easily but for working parents it would be a nightmare.

My DD's primary have them doing full days within 2 weeks, and although you don't absolutely have to agree to this, there is alot of pressure if you don't.

Of all the parents who wanted their DC to do half days to begin with for the first term, not one has done this and they all cite the same reasons for sending their DC all day...the pressure from the school was too much.

When I went to school (and dinosaurs walked the earth) there was a concept of "rising fives" so you went half days until the term in which you were 5. Does that still happen?

I don't think it's the age that is wrong but the attitude to schooling in the UK.

My kids started school in France at 3 (August and July birthdays so the youngest in the year) and they love it. The day starts at 8:30 and finishes at 4:30. Dd, 3, in the Petit Section does full days but they have a room with cotbed sized bunk beds which they go to for a sleep for 2 hours after lunch.

Ds, 5, is in the Grand Section which is the first year that they don't have a sleep but they have quiet time with books for an hour.

While this stage of school is known as Maternelle and isn't obligatory, they do still do 'work' combined with a lot of play but they base it on the child's abilities. Dd has no real interest in anything 'academic' so she plays most of the day whereas ds could read and write by her age and enjoyed learning so he was given more structured work to do.

YABU
Most 4 year olds are more than ready to start school, my own DD is in reception and frankly it couldn't have come soon enough - she is nearly 5 and was going stir crazy at nursery. She was more than ready to start school and she loves it, is really happy and motivated. I think she would have been ready the minute she turned 4, tbh.
Unless there was free nursery until the age of 7, what on earth would parents be expected to do anyway, stay at home with their children? My daughter would have gone ape, and so would I!

school and school age start will always be right for some and wrong for others. There are some kids who never cope well with school and we put them through 12-14 years of it.

Unfortunately it's one of life's facts, the child's unavoidable equivalent of tax (although i'm not sure who i know that likes tax)

your only option is to home school until you think she's ready or find a school that is more caring towards her particular needs.

the school should be working to make her happy, theres is no excuse for leaving her soiled and that does deserve a complaint and a resolution quite urgently

Have you thought about how you could work with her to make school seem more exciting and interesting or relevant to her personally? I have a three year old in nursery linked to a primary school but we say school and we talk on the way about the good things she might be doing and we talk on the way home and share, sometimes about the good things and sometimes about the bad things. For the bad things we talk about why they were bad (usually who bit who first, still nursery afterall!)

DS started school when he was 3 (rising 4) and was there 9:00am until 6:00pm (after school club) right from his first day. I was a bit worried about the length of day but with both of us working full time and having no family close by it had to be done and after all wasn't that much longer than a day at nursery.

We are in Wales and it was a very small school with only 26 children in the whole school! DS loved it immediately even though when he started he was in the middle of a shy (hiding behind my legs all the time) phase. The long days didn't bother him and he slept very well at night. His shy phase ended very soon afterwards.

I'm sure that things would not have been the same in a larger, more formalised school. In this wonderful little school (state) there were only two classrooms: up to year 4 in one and then years 5 & 6 in the other. What worked for DS was that he was given the freedom to join in any activity going on up to year 4. He could participate in the maths being taught to year 2s/3s and if he became bored he could get up and join the painting table with a younger group or listen to the history 'stories' with year 4. Of course there were times when the very little ones had targeted literacy / numeracy etc and as he grew older his freedom to move about & switch tasks was reduced but this initial freedom and interaction / observation of the older children gave him a great start, boosted his confidence and taught him social skills outside his own age group. He also got to see & learn what was expected of the older children before he himself reached that year.

DS is now in year 9, confident and very popular. It's noticeable how wide in age group his friendships span.

OP if you're worried about your DC being distressed at school I don't think it has anything to do with age or being 'ready'. It's all about what goes on in school and how things are managed. Can you go in to 'help out' and observe your DC's day? Is there a smaller school which may suit better? I'm not sure that a room full of YRs 'learning through play' is always the best scenario for many children. I think it is a recipe for stress and overload.

I think 4 is a bit young to be going to school full day (especially those just turned 4). Class of about 30 with 2 adults is a big change from many pre- schools. Think it's done mostly for to provide childcare so parents can get back to work easier.