to be feeling guilty for adding to an already overpopulated world?

[LDNmummy]

This is not about the other thread, I have just been thinking about this since contributing to that thread.

I had my first DC six weeks ago and since then the population of the world has passed seven billion.Overpopulation is obviously going to cause a lot of problems for the human race in the not too distant future as food, water, resources and space will have to be shared with more and more people.

When I decided to have kids, I decided to have one or two max and this was in part because I feel the world is already overpopulated enough and I don't want to add to that problem. This wasn't the major deciding factor (for me two kids seem enough anyway), but it was part of the reasoning behind my decision. Now after having my first, I definitely want to have another, but I have started thinking how nice it would be to have three kids. Having a baby is so amazing that having two doesn't seem enough anymore. The thing that stops me, is that I almost feel it would be selfish of me to have a third child with things as they stand.

A lot is said about countries like China and Nigeria when it comes to overpopulation, but what about western countries like Britain. Should we as individuals be more conscientious of how many children we choose to have?

the birthrate is dropping in many countries, and will continue to drop as more countries become modernised.
There's alot of scaremongering about over population.

I think we as individuals should be more conscientious about many ways in which we're living.

But I think if you want and can have 3 children (I'm not going to say the word 'afford' because of the other very long thread, but you get the gist of what I'm saying), then I wouldn't let that put you off.

Ah well that makes my OP seem totally pointless now dirtylie

Any decent study will show you that population growth is, in fact, slowing. The decline in the birthrate will be more apparent in the next few decades and we may even begin to see a decline in the headcount by midcentury. I think a lot of people get caught up in the game of numbers when the real problem the planet faces is overconsumption. Overconsumption by nation like the US, UK, France - developed economies. For instance, one european person's carbon fp is bigger than that of an entire african village. Furthermore, an average American will have 4x more carbon fp than a Chinese man.

I am sorry, I want to write more about this topic but my brain is frazzled and I must go to sleep.

Interesting topic though.

The subject bugs me - I have a friend who is constantly congratulating herself on only having one child and waiting until she was in her 30's as ways to reduce the overpopulation. It is another one of the things used to imply one life choice is better than another. People with one child fee guilty about not providing a sibling, people with multiple kids feel bad about world population... can't win.

...Cant sleep...So will add some more.

The countries that most responsible for overconsumption have seen a very real decline in birth rate, so much that some government have introduced policies to encourage fertility ... monetary incentives, better child care and even very long maternity leave.

Germany where the current birthrate is 1.4 children per woman is fighting underpopulation, so let me use it as a an example. People under 18 years old account for only 16% of the population in the country. In the eastern part of Germany there has been a 30% fall in the number of children in the last 10 years. This is economic disaster waiting to happen as there will be a massive short-fall of workers in the country in the next 15-20 years.

Indeed, I have read studies that suggest the world's population will peak at 9billion by midcentury then will begin to fall and by 2300 will be below 2.5billion if the planets current demographic pattern continues.

I hope you got to sleep ourplanet!
not at all pointless LDN!:)
it's an interesting and important subject and I think it's good to dispel the widely held belief that population is set to rise and rise.

Who can say what will happen in future generations, but it seems likely the shape of the population (in terms of age distribution) will be quite different. This doesnt have to mean a small number of young people struggling to look after a huge number of infirm elderly!

Quite possibly advances in medicine and health care will mean that people are fit and active much much later in life.
80 will be the new 40

I'm optimistic, really I am!!

The birthrate is falling creating an upside-down pyramid or whatever. If you want three children, have your three children! Your one extra child will not be the straw that breaks the camels back, I promise.

if you only have one child then as a couple you are only replacing one of you so if everyone did that (in simple terms) that would be a population decline.

i have 3 children and we live as environmentally as possible so i'm quite happy with our environmental impact. some mornings i have to really stop and look at myself before i pick recyclable bits out the bathroom bin . i'm hoping my kids will grow up to be as environmentally aware as me so in my eyes, the more the merrier!

I aim to raise productive members of society. I will only feel guilty if they grow up to be adults who make no contribution.

I think if you can afford them, give them space, and devote individual time to each child, have as many as you want.

You raise an interesting point OP, but I think it's a pointless worry.

You are 'overthinking' the issue of reproduction. I think people in the western world are so comfortable and spoilt that they indulge themselves in these silly worries. You seem to have lost touch with your basic human instincts which will dictate how many DC's you wish to have.

Nature will always win out; us as individuals or as a collective, cannot beat it. Just get on with your life, have any many children as you desire, but live mindfully and respect other people and your environment. That's all you can do.

Don't worry - there are just as many people dying all around the world due to old age and wars, so infact it just balances out.

I don't even believe this whole 7 billionth child being born malarky - it's just a bunch of people making up figures to scaremonger.

Have your 3 kids. Don't think too much into this. It's not like YOU will be the sole reason to cause unbalance and unrest in the whole wide world if you have another baby!!

that is a poor reason not to have a wanted child. I find the hand wrigning smugness about only having one child to help the poulation cringy, not to mention misguided. however I have found out a few times IRL that that wasn't the real reason, but the one they latached onto after they found out/ decided there wouldn't be any more. So they could make other people feel guilty about it, presumably.

I don't think it's mad to worry about overpopulation, but I do think it's mad to worry about whether to have your third when you haven't even conceived your second. See how you cope with two first, and many congratulations on your baby.

And your child could be the one who develops a cure for cancer, or a car that runs on water, or affects the lives of millions, or thousands, or just one person in a way that NO-ONE else could do. We don't have to think of ourselves as a burden.

If you believe John Gray (Straw Dogs: Basic message- we are just another species and should get over ourselves), if we follow the population growth trend of any other species, we will suffer a massive population crash around 2150 which will take us down to a sustainable level. Until then , we will continue to be a plague on the face of the planet. I think he's probably got a point.

Post your logic only works if you think that more people are a good thing

Hmm but then again who are going to be around to pay the taxes in 20 odd years if we don't have kids?

This is the problem. If you think about it, nature is just a Ponzi scheme. We need to keep producing young.

reallife, humans are not just another species, we have the ability to manipulate our environment in a way that no other species comes close to. Also technology advances at an exponential rate, the future will bring things that none of us can anticipate.
As for 'who will pay the taxes' who knows what other systems we will come up with for distributing goods and services?

The problem isn't with overpopulation. It's with overconsumption.

Ormirian, they are all related but I'd emphasize inefficiency and inequality over overconsumption

The problem is both overconsumption and overpopulation. The long term carrying capacity of the earth is 4 billion people not overconsuming.

That said, I don't think you as an individual not having 3 kids is going to help the situation.

The population will crash, due to war, famine, disease or some combination of the three.

I also agree with the poster who said we are not like any other species. Humans have effectively replaced their own speciation with culture - so we can live almost anywhere on the earth and change our environment to an extent that no other species can.

If we do manage to entirely destroy the planet, I would still rather my children or my great grandchildren had the privilege of living, even in such dire circumstances. And there is a poignancy of being the person who is there at the very end of the human story, if it has to end.