to be a little bit hesitant about renting to DSS?

[traininglady]

Don't get me worng, I'm not flaming everyone who claims housing benefit, but I've had some terrible experiences recently and am wondering if I'm being over cautious?

We rent out a flat that we used to live in before we had dd and moved somewhere else. The first tenant we had was on housing benefit and always paid late, asked if she could decorate, I agreed in neutral colours only to find she painted BRIGHT RED!! She then proceeded to hand in her notice and move a month later.

Next tenant, again on HB, didn't even pay her rent when HB was being paid to her, we couldn't do anything until she was 8 weeks in arrears then the council paid it to us directly, they said we'd need to claim money back from her through court.

She proceeded to move in 2 dogs without even asking us, made a hughe mess of the place then handed her notice in promising to get up to date with rent and sort out flat.

When she came to move out and I mentioned that

1. The carpets were filthy
2. The house stank of dog wee
3. There were holes in cupboard doors and bannisters broken.
4. Still in arrears.

she basically said what did I expect her to do as she was on benefit and it was my problem.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

It has taken my husband and I 2 weeks of scrubbing and redecorating (still not finished) so far to get the property in a decent state to let again, it just pisses me off so much that someone could have so little respect for something belonging to someone else that they work incredibly hard for.

"I am curious... Who gives a fuck where the money is coming from as long as the rent is paid?"

That's the problem really. Because of the regulations surrounding HB there is this 8 week period where it is paid direct to the tenant. It is not until the tenant has pocketed this that the landlord can apply to be paid direct. By that time the damage is done as far as the landlord is concerned. Don't shoot the landlords, the target for people's anger should be the (minority) of HB tenants who exploit this time and time again, moving on from one property to the next.
As a landlord I can say that if I sign an agreement with a tenant on HB I then sit praying that this time they will turn out to be genuine. I've let to 3 HB tenants so far and 2 kept their first 8 weeks benefit, then moved on leaving the flats in a state. So forgive me for being wary.
If HB was paid direct to the landlords I think it would do a lot to help honest people on benefits find a decent place to live.

i have recently rented out my flat and asked for no dss. they may well while renting have to claim housing benefit but when they moved in i needed to be sure they could pay the rent as i this was a this was required for me to be able to get insurance to cover the rent should it not be paid

not all landlords earn from renting out. once the mortgage has been paid, the ground rent fees, estate agent fees i have about £70 left over i put this in savings should interest rates go up or something needs fixing in the flat

the deposit scheme just covers damage to the flat and it is usually 6 weeks rent it does not cover payments should they miss any or pay the rent late

"I work for a tiny agency, I'm one of 5 including the Y11 Saturday girl. We set up standing orders for LL's so they get their rent. You can also get insurance so that if the tenant doesn't pay, you still get your money (think it's pretty reasonable on policies covering up to six months, more expensive on longer periods)"
Does your insurance cover people on HB?

Yes, I'd like to say 'I don't care where your money comes from but what I want is 1.5 month's rent as deposit and rent paid monthly in advance'. Those conditions don't match the HB payment system though so, in effect, exclude HB tenants, while being standard for private letting.

Our Council (through the Housing Office) runs a scheme for certain HB tenants, somehow judged as most reliable, whereby they offer a deposit bond to landlords and ensure the rent gets through in the early months. The landlord has to be accredited (an inspection, some paperwork) - generally a scheme entered into by landlords with many properties but open to those with one.

Payment of HB to claimants is supposed to be about treating them as responsible adults. It is a real pity some aren't and ruin it for others (but some private tenants are irresponsible idiots too).

I have no idea, Lucy, I've only been there 3 weeks! Also there are lots of different levels of cover and I'm not an insurance broker I do know that a reputable agent will recommend LL insurance (and then let the LL choose if and which they go for) so there must be some benefit to it because a high percentage of the LL's I've dealt with have it

I have to admit I hadn't thought of insurance implications (have LL insurance but didn't check about benefits) and you're right Freudian, the deposit bond scheme was limited.

I was approached by a number of people on benefits wehn advertising my house this year. One was on the scheme I mentioned and asked if I'd be willing to work with that, so I found out about it. I'd have been happy to have her (+baby and boyfriend) as tenants, as she was clearly a competent, responsible person but in fact ended up with private tenants and must admit to some relief at not having to go through the extra admin.

I take out LL's insurance, but haven't found a company that will cover tenants who are unemployed.

A trip to a landlords' forum will give anyone who is interested a glimpse of the reality of being a landlord, and the woes of letting to HB tenants. It's a bloody shame.

The majority of HB claimants work and get HB to top up wages. In that case the HB can change week to week. I also suspect that most of them just don't tell the LL. Not ideal, but if you are on a low wage for a few months I don't see how having your wages topped up by HB is any different to tax credits or DLA. Surely private tenants are more risky in a way- they could lose their job and not be able to pay while stuff is sorted. At least the HB tenant is getting the money in the first place.
Even full HB round here doesn't cover a very small house anyway - anyone would have to top up.

Also, on a side note, dss doesn't exist. You mean DWP. Who also don't pay HB. All other benefits are either DWP or HMRC, but HB and CTB are local councils.

Also, always use the deposit scheme. If you don't you can automatically be given a fine worth three times the deposit.

If I was a LL, I think I would use an agency for tenant finding and the first six months. That covers all the referencing etc and the first two inspections. After that you hopefully have an idea of what the tenant is like.

I'm currently in my second rented property and claim HB.

I can understand your reluctance as I understand it is harder to chase arrears. Low or no income so even if you are found to be owed money very hard to get it back.

However there are good tenants out there who claim housing benefit. I moved into my 1st rented property, decortaed every room (in neutral colours), glossed all woodwork, put down laminate flooring through the ground floor, got a new boiler installed - then moved out! With a glowing reference obviously.

It may not be my house but is my home so I treat it with respect, keep it clean and maintained

I always always pay my rent on time, I have a child and it's my responsibility to keep a roof over our heads. Me and my son are very settled in our current house and I would like to stay as long as possible so wouldn't want to rock the apple cart.

You need to find a tenant with glowing references. Take time to talk to them (by email/phone/in person) to see how they view renting and why they want to move. I haven't paid a deposit on either property I have rented, just an admin fee but taking a deposit is definitely a wise idea.

I am a LL and used to rent to DSS....my advice....dont do it!!

I had nothing but problems and now use an agency who only deal with private renters.........life is much simpler now :)

just to add...its not always the tenants, some of them were great - the council are a nightmare too...rent reviews etc etc means weeks without any rent money! They dont realise most LL arent rich but rely on rent to pay the mortgage.

DSS tenants are just the same as everyone else - good ones and bad ones. However, from a legal point of view, there can be a big difference. If a private tenant goes into arrears they will often move out to another property in order to minimise the claim from their landllord. After all, no one really wants a County Court judgment against their name if they don't already have one. The "trouble" with DSS tenants is that the advice the Council always gives them is - stay where you are until there is a court order in place evicting you. This means that the landlord has to waste at least 3 months and £1500 or so getting the court order to chuck them out. So in my view DSS tenants are "worse" for that reason.

My parents had two lots of defaulters. Both were working when they moved in, but I think lost or left jobs later. Both were through letting agents and both had references. People can be cunts however they pay their rent.
Remember that lots of working families will also be claiming LHA and not telling you. I think your best bet if working tenants are hard to come by is to approach the council to talk about making your property available to their housing drpt- presumably you will have more leeway about how the LHA is paid.

I think that if you are on full LHA ie the entire rent is being paid, it should go to the LL direct if that's what all parties want. Whereas if you work and get a LHA top up it should go to the tenant to budget.

A big problem is that if a fault is found with housing benefit, if the council determines years later that the tenant wasn't entitled to all they received, the council can chase the LL for it.

That would put me off, if I were a LL.

i can understand you worries but surely it is morally wrong to buy a council house and then rent it out and state 'no DSS'
I know it's not what OP has done but their are several in our town which have done this

I would never rent to HB claimants again. Not because of the tenant as such, but because of the bloody council rigmarole you have to go through every few months when they reassess, leaving you out of pocket for weeks on end until they sort it out. I always had the HB paid direct to me, but when they suddenly drop it and the tenant is genuinely unable to pay the balance without taking out a high-interest unsecured loan, and she's also behind with all of her other bills, what do you do? Land-lording is not for the soft-hearted, hence my house is now on the market...

And I'm sure I read on here a while back (don't shoot me if I'm wrong!) something about councils being able to order private landlords to pay a certain amount back if it transpires that the tenant on HB has been claiming fraudulently? Is that true?

If so, and given the above, it's no wonder so many LL won't touch DSS. It sounds like a terrible system that's basically crying out to be abused, which a minority always will, thus making life even harder for everyone else.

haven't read whole thread, but check references (preferably through an estate agent), keep a deposit of a month and a half and have a guarantor.

i have been on dss, and i would never behave like your tenants have, i think my tenant in my property is on dss, but i dont know as i assume it is paid direct to her, i have had no problem with late payments!

I am a landlady and don't/won't rent to anyone requiring housing benefit to cover the rent. That's because the Housing Benefit people are a bunch of monkeys extremely unreliable.

I did once rent to a guy on HB, unfortunately just at the time the service here in Sheffield was privatised. It took 9 MONTHS for the first payment to come through and as I couldn't bring myself to make the poor lad homeless my family lived on beans all winter in a cold house. Never again!

Ah, sorry eminencegrise, didn't spot your post saying exactly the same thing! So it is true, then? I didn't really want to believe it as it seems to grossly unfair.

WibblyBibble just so you are aware, people can lie in interviews and falsify references (as traininglady said this particular tenant has).

Also direct debits are set up by a financial institution to claim money from your account. You are thinking of a standing order, which can be cancelled at any time. As it is controlled by the person paying it, the beneficiary has no idea whether it is even in existence!

And like it or not, OP has had 2 bad experiences with DSS tenants and wants to minimise the risks of it happening again. I don't think this is being a bigot, it is unfortunately having to be cautious due to the behaviour of some people.

Well I am on HB and fortunately am in a HA flat. However I am on HB because I have a disabled child and cannot work, I study with the OU and dream of a day when I can work again, it is highly unlikely though because of my circumstances.

I tentatively put out feelers for private rental last year as I need more space and a garden for my kids. Completely impossible to find anyone who would accept HB. I would be a great tenant as routine and security are my no 1 priority for my dc and this means bills get paid on the button ESPECIALLY rent but no one will give a chance because of my circumstances with my child that are totally out of my control.