To expect one's colleagues to respect the 2 minute silence for Armistice Day

[suebfg]

...and not make a phone call in the middle of the office?

rocks - possibly in other wars but in WW2 people who joined up, and later on those who were conscripted, definitely were fighting to protect our way of life against a totalitarian regime. They knew what they were fighting against. That's why my Grandparents volunteered, although they were both in their 40s and well over conscription age. People didn't know about the full horrors of the concentration camps, but they knew the Jews were being taken, as well as trade unionists, gypsies, the disabled and everyone else Hitler despised or thought was a threat. Many left-wingers had protested against, or fought in, the Spanish Civil War, and were well aware of the dangers of fascism - even though at the time, the British government did its damndest to prevent them, even to the extent of refusing to allow members of the International Brigade back into the country. My Godmother helped smuggle volunteers back into the UK.

Actually, I don't remember them once a year only and no one reminds me too. I lost someone important in the war. It never leaves you.

And that is amazing, but it is very specific to WW2 when poppies as a symbol are so closely tied to WW1 and Armistice Day is that Armistice. WW1, perhaps above all wars, symbolises to me the wanton destruction of youth for power. I think it's a shame in some ways that Armistice Day has come to symbolise both wars, because they are nothing alike. I am not sure why WW2 can't be commemorated separately.

I agree with carrying on but quietly if you feel that way, but not starting the call (if it was done deliberately). This has nothing to do with it being a remembrance silence but of social norms. If everyone is quiet as they are listening to a presentation, people wanting to take/make calls would be expected to go outside.

"It never leaves you."

exactly. so why assume that you are the only one remembering the rest of the year? why assume that jsut because someone isn't publicly showing that they remember for 2 minutes on 11th november that they have forgotten or are being disrespectful?

"If everyone is quiet as they are listening to a presentation, people wanting to take/make calls would be expected to go outside."

a presentation would be likely to be related to their job if it was taking place in the office.

YANBU. Mind you, I nearly lost it with a colleague who typed through the 2 minute silence. (I kept my gob shut in the end).

I've not known anyone in the army, no family or friends and I'm an old hippy who does not like wars but the 2 minute silence is to be respected.

Altinkum
It reads like you are assuming.
Myself and several other said yesteday that it is not only the dead military we remember and pay tribute too but you choose to ignore that part of our comments.

My grandad was 15 when he joined up in WW1, he told them he was older, they did not check. He and his friends thought it would be an adventure, they had no idea..he saw his 15 yr old friends get killed, piss them selves in fear and for many who did survive come home as psychologically damaged , still young adults with no councelling in place , they just had to get on with it and thier families had to cope with these damaged young men with no help, often suffering at the hands of them too.

So of course the effects of this impacted on everyone. Not just the fighters,but family and loved ones and thier unborn children.
Surley the 2 minute silence is to aknowledge the horror of war and its legacy, "lest we forget". means just that surely. So not just the horror of death but also the horror of living with war too.

I am just one families story, there are thousands more like mine and indeed worse than mine, so please do not assume what I am thinking when I am silent.
I remember my grandad everyday,We were lucky , he survived both wars but the horror was always etched in his eyes
Once a year I unite with others who all have stories and scars and also those who choose to respect that they may not have been there but understand the cost and the gift their history gave them.Whatever the politics,the 2 minute silence is a time to reflect on our own private thoughts

We never want to go back there

and come off it, how many pointless presentations do most people go to

or even if people are having a meeting in your office with other colleagues, you quieten down and respect that.

In general social norms are not to disturb others, loud noises in an otherwise quiet environment is disturbing.

It's not disrespectful - that person made a choice.

But, an anecdote (coz it made me proud)

DD2 is nine, and the school did the minute's silence as part of assembly. When they got back to the classroom, she asked the teacher would they be doing the 2 mins silence at 11.

Teacher said no, they'd done the silence in assembly. So DD2 told her she thought it was important to remember all the people who died in all the wars and could she do it.

Teacher agreed, so come 11am my wee DD2 stood up and did her silence.

I am VERY proud.

they died because they were forced to enlist and their lives were made very difficult if not. They didn't have that much choice and also I suppose some of them saw it as adventure and a chance to leave their mundane existence. I know it was hellish but the propaganda said differently

They were pawns in a game like you say Rock.

There is that poem by Thomas Hardy 'The man he killed' which relates to this I feel.

I still think it would not hurt people to be silent for that 2 minutes and it is a good discipline.

"or even if people are having a meeting in your office with other colleagues, you quieten down and respect that."

it is an office environment where meetings take place. when you go to work you expect to have to facilitate meetings. you expect that others will have work that doesn't involve you but it is their work so you allow them to get on with it..
a 2 minute silence is not necessary for the workplace to function. no-one is getting paid to take part, no-one is obligated to attend. people choose of their own free will to be silent in an office for 2 minutes. that is fine. others will carry on working, which is what they are there for.

You don't HAVE to be silent for 2 minutes.

Why didn't YOU leave the office so they could continue working?

I sort of agree that this person made a choice and exercised their democratic right. However, the fact they were able to do so was because of the countless brave men and women who fought and died to protect that right. Many of whom, particularly in WW1 who had no choice to make about their own lives as they were conscripted.

On the other hand, I can see that perhaps those who wanted to mark the silence could have left to do so to avoid this kind of situation.

YANBU. I would have been Very. Put. Out. And I would have told the ignorant disrespectful woman why.

SLightly off the ABU but I too was very proud that my school, like many others, had a special assembly. Children proudly wore poppies and could tell you why. Children who normally cannot keep still or stop talking ever were utterly silent for the 2 minutes at 11 o clock. This is a primary school. If 4 year old children can do it then grown adults can too. It's 2 minutes. That's all. It's not much is it?

It just seems a bit pathetic and petty to use 2 minutes, which is nothing compared to the amount of time people in offices waste on facebook, mn, making a cup of tea, whatever, to try and make some sort of "point"

Even if you don't believe in war / poppy concept / remembering the military / the rhetoric of rememberance / whatever, no-one can be oblivious to the fact that those who are being silent are very often remembering a loved one specifically, as well as honouring the fallen generally, and it canbe a very distressing moment for them. But hey, yeah, of course, it's up to you. Who needs common decency when you have a right to talk on the phone / express your opinions / make your point?!

pumpkin who is making a point?

Altinkum - perhaps you could use the 2 minutes' silence to remember all those who you think should be remembered.

And I accept that some people may not want to observe the silence, but I believe that it is reasonable for those people to do something quiet if they want to work through the silence, if that's possible.

Doing something noisy or disruptive during the silence smacks of 'rubbing people's faces' in the fact that you don't observe the silence - I don't understand why that is neccessary, when you do have the choice to do something quiet for 2 minutes.

I think it goes with the majority. If the majority of people want to do it, could the 2 people who don't go and make a cup of tea/read a document/do something else quiet
I would be very pissed off if 99% of people wanted to do it and 1% couldn't be quiet for that time
We had 2 people on calls, the whole rest of the (emergency) call centre was silent. The 2 calls were obviously totally unavoidable so I had no issue with that at all

When I read BridgetJonesPants :
'make an excuse at 11.10am and go to the toilet, pop outside & make a phone call etc.',

I really thought she had typed:
'make an excuse at 11.10am and go to the toilet, plop outside & make a phone call etc.'

I do not mean to make light of a contentious issue, but I could not help laughing.

I leave the office for the silence now as I find it very upsetting when people are unable to take two minutes out of their lives to at least respect the fact that for many people this is very important and sometimes distressing. It's not about the politics or whether you agree with war or not it's about having the common fucking decency to respect your colleagues and millions of others who do wish to observe the silence. You've got the whole rest of the year to argue your point.

pumpkin who is making a point?

Er heresthethhing, you are quite clearly trying to make the point that you will not be dictated to, wont do what everyone tells you too blah blah blah.

Like pumpkin said I think it is pathetic to take 2 minutes and make it into such a big deal.

What devilforasideboard said.

no samstown i am not quite clearly making the point by not taking part in the silence. plenty of people dont take part in charity giving, are they making a point just because they walk past the charity collector holding a tin? no they just aren't donating because it isn't something they want to do. i dont take part in someone else's 2 minute silence because remembering the dead for 2 minutes on the 11th of november isn't what i want to do. i do it in my own way. i am not making a point i am just not doing it. i dont make a point when i choose 1 sandwich out of 5 on the shelf. i am just not picking the ones i dont want to eat. it is personal preference.

"I think it is pathetic to take 2 minutes and make it into such a big deal."

i agree with you there. why can't people just let others make up their own mind?